A Simple Experiment With Paul

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Leucius Charinus
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Re: A Simple Experiment With Paul

Post by Leucius Charinus »

lclapshaw wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:19 pmDoes make you wonder how the author of this letter reconciled it with the monstrosities that passed as Paul's "letters" representative in the NT.

What you posted is a representation of actual letters from antiquitie. "Paul's letters" in the NT are not.
Whoever authored the forged letter exchange between Paul and Seneca was probably part of the Nicene Church which readily accepted it as genuine. They may have known all of Paul's letters were forgeries and thereby easily reconciled the addition of extra forgeries.

Since you ...
consider "Romans" all but a wash and don't wish that on anyone.
I have as a result downloaded Romans partly because of my fascination with chapter 13 as a smoking gun for its obvious advertisement of Roman imperial propaganda.

As I understand it you seek to identify and remove the "preachy content, as well as the references to Jerusalem and Judaism" and see what's left over, Is that correct?

What do you mean Romans to be "all but a wash"? Do you mean all awash with preachy and Judaic content?
lclapshaw
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Re: A Simple Experiment With Paul

Post by lclapshaw »

Leucius Charinus wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:59 pm
lclapshaw wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:19 pmDoes make you wonder how the author of this letter reconciled it with the monstrosities that passed as Paul's "letters" representative in the NT.

What you posted is a representation of actual letters from antiquitie. "Paul's letters" in the NT are not.
Whoever authored the forged letter exchange between Paul and Seneca was probably part of the Nicene Church which readily accepted it as genuine. They may have known all of Paul's letters were forgeries and thereby easily reconciled the addition of extra forgeries.

Since you ...
consider "Romans" all but a wash and don't wish that on anyone.
I have as a result downloaded Romans partly because of my fascination with chapter 13 as a smoking gun for its obvious advertisement of Roman imperial propaganda.

As I understand it you seek to identify and remove the "preachy content, as well as the references to Jerusalem and Judaism" and see what's left over, Is that correct?

What do you mean Romans to be "all but a wash"? Do you mean all awash with preachy and Judaic content?
Yeah, exactly right. I consider Romans to be nothing more than fiction. A long preachy rant, created by multiple authors at various stages for various agendas. It's why it's so skitso.

If there is a urpaul in that mess then it is only at the very beginning and maybe a little at the end. And by end I don't mean chapter 16.

With the preachy and Judaic content removed from the "letters" I think I see a flesh and blood person trying to get something done.
This is just with the Corinthian letters and maybe Philippians and 1Thessalonians tho.
lclapshaw
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Re: A Simple Experiment With Paul

Post by lclapshaw »

For anyone wanting to participate in this experiment, let me save you some pain. The urpaul that I think I catch glimpses of only seems to exist in 1 Corinthians and possibly Philippians, and, and I am hesitant to say this, 2 Corinthians (maybe).

If you plan to contribute a thread for consideration, I suggest you just start with 1 Corinthians. I, myself, will just be contributing 1 Corinthians Kata lclapshaw on the 27th. After that, we'll see.

This is supposed to be fun, not a drag/job.

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lclapshaw
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Re: A Simple Experiment With Paul

Post by lclapshaw »

Martijn, now that you have seen my results, if you read this, do you think this is worth the effort?

I really would like to see what others here come up with. You?
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Re: A Simple Experiment With Paul

Post by lclapshaw »

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mlinssen
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Re: A Simple Experiment With Paul

Post by mlinssen »

lclapshaw wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 1:14 pm Martijn, now that you have seen my results, if you read this, do you think this is worth the effort?

I really would like to see what others here come up with. You?
I happened to see this by accident as it is so very quiet out here, but yes I certainly think this is worth the effort
lclapshaw
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Re: A Simple Experiment With Paul

Post by lclapshaw »

mlinssen wrote: Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:16 am
lclapshaw wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 1:14 pm Martijn, now that you have seen my results, if you read this, do you think this is worth the effort?

I really would like to see what others here come up with. You?
I happened to see this by accident as it is so very quiet out here, but yes I certainly think this is worth the effort
Cool 😎 two weeks to go. 🙂
lclapshaw
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Re: A Simple Experiment With Paul

Post by lclapshaw »

And here we go. :)

urpaul Kata lclapshaw: 1 Corinthians w/Philippians and 2 Corinthians viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10490
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Re: A Simple Experiment With Paul

Post by lclapshaw »

Ok. Next on the list is an attempt to find in 1 Corinthians what I like to refer to as Base Paul. Base Paul is what I think may be the author that took the letters of "urpaul" and elaborated on them to change urpaul's human master into a celestial divine Master. I personally do not think that the celestial Master of Base Paul is based on YHVH but rather is a Greek/Roman based construct.

To locate this Base Paul I will start by removing urpaul and any Paul that seems Jewish in nature. With the material left over I will then see what I can find. I will try to post my findings, if any, on March 31 2023, one month from now. If I fail I will post that.

If anyone would like to take an independent crack at this I would love to see what you come up with. :)
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Leucius Charinus
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Re: A Simple Experiment With Paul

Post by Leucius Charinus »

Concerning these ideas of "base Paul" and "urPaul", I am interested in what you may find in some of his canonical letters. For myself I have serious doubts as to the historicity of Paul or that any of his epistles are genuine. I have often wondered whether "base Paul" is exemplified in the (forged) letter exchange between Paul and Seneca. That is, everything to do with Paul (and the gospels, acts, etc.) has been cobbled together as part of an elaborate historical and theological fiction liberally sprinkled with Roman political propaganda.
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