Did Tacitus confuse Jesus with the Samaritan false prophet slain by Pilate?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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mlinssen
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Re: Did Tacitus confuse Jesus with the Samaritan false prophet slain by Pilate?

Post by mlinssen »

neilgodfrey wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:14 am
Giuseppe wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 10:58 pm A plausible case to think so:
  • Tacitus derived the information about Chrestianity from an "oral tradition" circulating among Chrestians.
Just by the way -- I find it hard to imagine how one such as Tacitus ever came to be exposed to oral teachings of Christians/Chrestians. Have you come across any plausible explanation for how this might have happened?
Perhaps the term is not so unfortunate - but imagine that you da boss of a city that's run over by a frenzy mob: a conceptual description of what is happening is the first thing you're after. And usually also the second or third thing to hear

How did you become privy of the January 6 insurrection Neil? "Oral tradition" likely informed you of "some right-wing nutters storming the Capitol Trumpe impulso" and my-oh-my you didn't even know a single one of them!

You may either pat yourself on the back or chastise yourself in the same place for inserting the word 'teachings', by the way.
Good to have you back Neil, long time no see!
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mlinssen
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Kurzgefasste Liste: Mark 1:1 throughout the centuries

Post by mlinssen »

lclapshaw wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:54 am KAYABYNGA bro! Hang Iota! :cheers: :D
https://ntvmr.uni-muenster.de/community ... eText=true

gives me

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<t docID="30560" gaNum="560" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30561" gaNum="561" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30564" gaNum="564" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30565" gaNum="565" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30566" gaNum="566" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30569" gaNum="569" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30579" gaNum="579" lang="g">|α̣ρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30581" gaNum="581" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30584" gaNum="584" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30595" gaNum="595" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30652" gaNum="652" lang="g">|[lac]</t>
<t docID="30655" gaNum="655" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30664" gaNum="664" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30669" gaNum="669" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30672" gaNum="672" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30676" gaNum="676" lang="g">|[lac]</t>
<t docID="30677" gaNum="677" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30682" gaNum="682" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30695" gaNum="695" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30697" gaNum="697" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30700" gaNum="700" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30702" gaNum="702" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30706" gaNum="706" lang="g">-firsthand|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του̣ θ̅υ̅|-corrector|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30713" gaNum="713" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30716" gaNum="716" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30719" gaNum="719" lang="g">+Mark.1.1.P1260.I1|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅|+Mark.1.1.P1330.I1|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30726" gaNum="726" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30728" gaNum="728" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30732" gaNum="732" lang="g">|[α]ρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30733" gaNum="733" lang="g">|[lac]</t>
<t docID="30740" gaNum="740" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ του υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30749" gaNum="749" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30752" gaNum="752" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30771" gaNum="771" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30773" gaNum="773" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30776" gaNum="776" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30780" gaNum="780" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30788" gaNum="788" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30791" gaNum="791" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30792" gaNum="792" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30796" gaNum="796" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30803" gaNum="803" lang="g">|[α]ρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30807" gaNum="807" lang="g">|[lac]</t>
<t docID="30824" gaNum="824" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30826" gaNum="826" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30827" gaNum="827" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30828" gaNum="828" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30829" gaNum="829" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υ̅υ̅ του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30833" gaNum="833" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30841" gaNum="841" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30855" gaNum="855" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30863" gaNum="863" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30872" gaNum="872" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30873" gaNum="873" lang="g">+Mark.1.1.P210.I1|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χριστου υιου του θ̅υ̅|+Mark.1.1.P1830.I1|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χριστου υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30892" gaNum="892" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υ̅υ̅ του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30945" gaNum="945" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30949" gaNum="949" lang="g">-firsthand|αρχη του ευαγ̣γελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ του θ̅υ̅|-corrector|αρχη του ευαγ̣γελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιο̣υ̣ του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30954" gaNum="954" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30962" gaNum="962" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30972" gaNum="972" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30979" gaNum="979" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30983" gaNum="983" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="30989" gaNum="989" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30992" gaNum="992" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30995" gaNum="995" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="30998" gaNum="998" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31005" gaNum="1005" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31008" gaNum="1008" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31009" gaNum="1009" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31014" gaNum="1014" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31021" gaNum="1021" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31029" gaNum="1029" lang="g">|[α]ρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31047" gaNum="1047" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31055" gaNum="1055" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31071" gaNum="1071" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31076" gaNum="1076" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31077" gaNum="1077" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31078" gaNum="1078" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31079" gaNum="1079" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31082" gaNum="1082" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31084" gaNum="1084" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31093" gaNum="1093" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31113" gaNum="1113" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31120" gaNum="1120" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31123" gaNum="1123" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31127" gaNum="1127" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31128" gaNum="1128" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31157" gaNum="1157" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31159" gaNum="1159" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31160" gaNum="1160" lang="g">+Mark.1.1.P4400.I1|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅|+Mark.1.1.P4410.I1|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31166" gaNum="1166" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31167" gaNum="1167" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31172" gaNum="1172" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31176" gaNum="1176" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31187" gaNum="1187" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31188" gaNum="1188" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31192" gaNum="1192" lang="g">|[lac]</t>
<t docID="31195" gaNum="1195" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31200" gaNum="1200" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31203" gaNum="1203" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31204" gaNum="1204" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31210" gaNum="1210" lang="g">|Αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31216" gaNum="1216" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υ̅ι̅ο̅υ̅ του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31217" gaNum="1217" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31220" gaNum="1220" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31223" gaNum="1223" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31225" gaNum="1225" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31241" gaNum="1241" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του κ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31243" gaNum="1243" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31253" gaNum="1253" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31266" gaNum="1266" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31273" gaNum="1273" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31278" gaNum="1278" lang="g">|Αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31279" gaNum="1279" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υ̅υ̅ του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31281" gaNum="1281" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31302" gaNum="1302" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31313" gaNum="1313" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31319" gaNum="1319" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31326" gaNum="1326" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31337" gaNum="1337" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31342" gaNum="1342" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31346" gaNum="1346" lang="g">|[lac]</t>
<t docID="31347" gaNum="1347" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31349" gaNum="1349" lang="g">|[lac]</t>
<t docID="31351" gaNum="1351" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31354" gaNum="1354" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31357" gaNum="1357" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31365" gaNum="1365" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31377" gaNum="1377" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31392" gaNum="1392" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31396" gaNum="1396" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31398" gaNum="1398" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31417" gaNum="1417" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31421" gaNum="1421" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31424" gaNum="1424" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υ̅υ̅ του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31435" gaNum="1435" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31446" gaNum="1446" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31457" gaNum="1457" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31458" gaNum="1458" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31463" gaNum="1463" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31495" gaNum="1495" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31500" gaNum="1500" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31503" gaNum="1503" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31505" gaNum="1505" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31506" gaNum="1506" lang="g">-firsthand|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ του θ̅υ̅|-T2|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31509" gaNum="1509" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31515" gaNum="1515" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31519" gaNum="1519" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31528" gaNum="1528" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31541" gaNum="1541" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31542" gaNum="1542" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31546" gaNum="1546" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31555" gaNum="1555" lang="g">-firsthand|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅|-corrector|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31561" gaNum="1561" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31571" gaNum="1571" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31574" gaNum="1574" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31579" gaNum="1579" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31582" gaNum="1582" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υ̅υ̅ του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31583" gaNum="1583" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31593" gaNum="1593" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31602" gaNum="1602" lang="g">|[lac]</t>
<t docID="31604" gaNum="1604" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31630" gaNum="1630" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31645" gaNum="1645" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31647" gaNum="1647" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31654" gaNum="1654" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31662" gaNum="1662" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31675" gaNum="1675" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31689" gaNum="1689" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="31823" gaNum="1823" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="31826" gaNum="1826" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32106" gaNum="2106" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="32127" gaNum="2127" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32148" gaNum="2148" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="32174" gaNum="2174" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="32193" gaNum="2193" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="32200" gaNum="2200" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="32206" gaNum="2206" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="32215" gaNum="2215" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32236" gaNum="2236" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32290" gaNum="2290" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32324" gaNum="2324" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32346" gaNum="2346" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32369" gaNum="2369" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32372" gaNum="2372" lang="g">|Αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="32373" gaNum="2373" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32398" gaNum="2398" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32400" gaNum="2400" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32407" gaNum="2407" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32411" gaNum="2411" lang="g">+Mark.1.1.P120.I1|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅|+Mark.1.1.P2390.I1|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="32414" gaNum="2414" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32422" gaNum="2422" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32427" gaNum="2427" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32444" gaNum="2444" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32445" gaNum="2445" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32474" gaNum="2474" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32482" gaNum="2482" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32487" gaNum="2487" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="32491" gaNum="2491" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32495" gaNum="2495" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32517" gaNum="2517" lang="g">|[lac]</t>
<t docID="32542" gaNum="2542" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="32561" gaNum="2561" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32604" gaNum="2604" lang="g">|[lac]</t>
<t docID="32606" gaNum="2606" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="32607" gaNum="2607" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="32610" gaNum="2610" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32680" gaNum="2680" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="32691" gaNum="2691" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32693" gaNum="2693" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32705" gaNum="2705" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32713" gaNum="2713" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="32722" gaNum="2722" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32726" gaNum="2726" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="32737" gaNum="2737" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ιησου χριστου υιου του θεου</t>
<t docID="32738" gaNum="2738" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="32745" gaNum="2745" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32752" gaNum="2752" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32754" gaNum="2754" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32756" gaNum="2756" lang="g">|[lac]</t>
<t docID="32766" gaNum="2766" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="32774" gaNum="2774" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32779" gaNum="2779" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32786" gaNum="2786" lang="g">|α̣ρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="32787" gaNum="2787" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32788" gaNum="2788" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32790" gaNum="2790" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32791" gaNum="2791" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32811" gaNum="2811" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32812" gaNum="2812" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="32860" gaNum="2860" lang="g">|[lac]</t>
<t docID="32886" gaNum="2886" lang="g">|[α]ρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="32907" gaNum="2907" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="40010" gaNum="L10" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="40012" gaNum="L12" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="40184" gaNum="L184" lang="g">|[lac]</t>
<t docID="40211" gaNum="L211" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="40299" gaNum="L299" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="40387" gaNum="L387" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγεληου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="40680" gaNum="L680" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="40770" gaNum="L770" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="40773" gaNum="L773" lang="g">|αρχη του ευαγγελιου ι̅υ̅ χ̅υ̅ υιου του θ̅υ̅</t>
<t docID="40950" gaNum="L950" lang="g">|[lac]</t>
<t docID="42460" gaNum="L2460" lang="g">|</t>
<t docID="" gaNum="true" lang="grc">|</t>
</transcriptions>

I've highlighted a few interesting ones for you

01 = Sinaiticus, 400
038 = Coridethianus, 1200
28 = 1100
69 = 1500
211 = 1000
372 = 1600
873 = 1100
1241 = 1200
1555 = 1300
2737 = 1558
Last edited by mlinssen on Fri Mar 10, 2023 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Giuseppe
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Re: Did Tacitus confuse Jesus with the Samaritan false prophet slain by Pilate?

Post by Giuseppe »

neilgodfrey wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:14 am
Giuseppe wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 10:58 pm A plausible case to think so:
  • Tacitus derived the information about Chrestianity from an "oral tradition" circulating among Chrestians.
Just by the way -- I find it hard to imagine how one such as Tacitus ever came to be exposed to oral teachings of Christians/Chrestians. Have you come across any plausible explanation for how this might have happened?
It is similar to Celsus's knowledge of the various sects. It is not necessary to assume that Celsus knew all them. It is only sufficient that Celsus knew a Catholic and derived from him/her the polemical arsenal to attack both Catholicism and all the other rival sects.

In the case of Tacitus, it was sufficient that he knew the Catholic defamation of Chrestian leaders as prevalently of Samaritan origin, in order to make him remember the only place where Josephus talked about a Samaritan riot.

Really, even not-Christian Jews could accuse all the Christians as "Samaritans". Wasn't the term already used as the old equivalent of "heretics"?
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neilgodfrey
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Re: Did Tacitus confuse Jesus with the Samaritan false prophet slain by Pilate?

Post by neilgodfrey »

mlinssen wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:00 am
neilgodfrey wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:14 am
Giuseppe wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 10:58 pm A plausible case to think so:
  • Tacitus derived the information about Chrestianity from an "oral tradition" circulating among Chrestians.
Just by the way -- I find it hard to imagine how one such as Tacitus ever came to be exposed to oral teachings of Christians/Chrestians. Have you come across any plausible explanation for how this might have happened?
Perhaps the term is not so unfortunate - but imagine that you da boss of a city that's run over by a frenzy mob: a conceptual description of what is happening is the first thing you're after. And usually also the second or third thing to hear

How did you become privy of the January 6 insurrection Neil? "Oral tradition" likely informed you of "some right-wing nutters storming the Capitol Trumpe impulso" and my-oh-my you didn't even know a single one of them!

You may either pat yourself on the back or chastise yourself in the same place for inserting the word 'teachings', by the way.
Good to have you back Neil, long time no see!
I've been over on the other sector -- Jewish Texts and History.

But I have to confess I still have a problem with the idea that Tacitus would have learned anything about Christian oral tradition. Even if Nero did blame the Christians for the fire of Rome, there were no professional reporters out there to investigate the accused party and deliver their reports through institutional media to all and sundry -- certainly nothing that was kept on record 40-50 years later when Tacitus wrote.
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neilgodfrey
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Re: Did Tacitus confuse Jesus with the Samaritan false prophet slain by Pilate?

Post by neilgodfrey »

Giuseppe wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 5:11 am
neilgodfrey wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:14 am
Giuseppe wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 10:58 pm A plausible case to think so:
  • Tacitus derived the information about Chrestianity from an "oral tradition" circulating among Chrestians.
Just by the way -- I find it hard to imagine how one such as Tacitus ever came to be exposed to oral teachings of Christians/Chrestians. Have you come across any plausible explanation for how this might have happened?
It is similar to Celsus's knowledge of the various sects. It is not necessary to assume that Celsus knew all them. It is only sufficient that Celsus knew a Catholic and derived from him/her the polemical arsenal to attack both Catholicism and all the other rival sects.

In the case of Tacitus, it was sufficient that he knew the Catholic defamation of Chrestian leaders as prevalently of Samaritan origin, in order to make him remember the only place where Josephus talked about a Samaritan riot.

Really, even not-Christian Jews could accuse all the Christians as "Samaritans". Wasn't the term already used as the old equivalent of "heretics"?
It seems to me there are several big jumps here:

1. that in the time of Tacitus there would have been "Catholic" opponents of Chri/estians of a generation, maybe two, earlier that had the ear of someone like Tacitus.

2. that Tacitus repeated information that he heard from such a source without any indication to readers what his source in this instance was in order to verify his account.

3. that Tacitus took enough interest in Josephus to recall the episode of the Samaritans and from there to make a link to Samaritan leaders in another place and another time.

But it is not a question that "seizes" me -- as I said, it was just a "by the way". I have other reasons for disputing the authenticity of the Tacitus passage.
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mlinssen
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Re: Did Tacitus confuse Jesus with the Samaritan false prophet slain by Pilate?

Post by mlinssen »

neilgodfrey wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:56 am But I have to confess I still have a problem with the idea that Tacitus would have learned anything about Christian oral tradition. Even if Nero did blame the Christians for the fire of Rome, there were no professional reporters out there to investigate the accused party and deliver their reports through institutional media to all and sundry -- certainly nothing that was kept on record 40-50 years later when Tacitus wrote.
I'll certainly share your concern there, as I see no way for Tacitus to be bothered with any oral tradition of any kind

The passage is a clear interpolation to at least some extent, as there are so many juicy details that come way too early in history but that would also be way too irrelevant to a Tacitus

But I do know that if there had been a story about Nero blaming Christians (and much more likely Chrestians) for the fire by making a giant show of limousine them, that it would have reached Tacitus - without such being regarded as oral tradition from Christians, of course
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Re: Did Tacitus confuse Jesus with the Samaritan false prophet slain by Pilate?

Post by Giuseppe »

didn't Tacitus the same thing when he wrote about Moses as founder of Judaism?

(Yes, he could have read about Moses from Josephus, while he couldn't read nothing about Jesus in Josephus: he could only hear about Chrestians).
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