A call for clarity concerning Priority: separate the traditions

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Leucius Charinus
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Re: A call for clarity concerning Priority: separate the traditions

Post by Leucius Charinus »

mlinssen wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:14 am
Leucius Charinus wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:47 am
mlinssen wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:00 pm it is impossible to find anything in Thomas, even a single letter, that attests to reacting to Judeo-Christianity
114. Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life
Devoid of anything else as usual. Verbatim agreement implies direction of dependence now?
From where did Thomas get the characters Simon Peter and Matthew and Mary? And for that matter where did Thomas get "IS" from?
Logion 13 wrote:IS said to his disciples, "Compare me to something and tell me what I am like."
Simon Peter said to him, "You are like a just messenger."
Matthew said to him, "You are like a wise philosopher."
And how exactly is this Judeo-Christian?
Simon Peter. Matthew et al are the standard Jewish/Christian characters in the traditional fictional story book about Christian origins. Which book features massive copy/pasted slabs of stuff from the Greek LXX.

The term Judeo-Christian is used to group Christianity and Judaism together, either in reference to Christianity's derivation from Judaism, Christianity's borrowing of Jewish Scripture to constitute the "Old Testament" of the Christian Bible, or due to the parallels or commonalities in Judaeo-Christian ethics shared by the two religions. The term "Judæo Christian" first appeared in the 19th century as a word for Jewish converts to Christianity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Christian

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mlinssen
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Re: A call for clarity concerning Priority: separate the traditions

Post by mlinssen »

Leucius Charinus wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 2:21 am
mlinssen wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:14 am
Leucius Charinus wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:47 am
mlinssen wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:00 pm it is impossible to find anything in Thomas, even a single letter, that attests to reacting to Judeo-Christianity
114. Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life
Devoid of anything else as usual. Verbatim agreement implies direction of dependence now?
From where did Thomas get the characters Simon Peter and Matthew and Mary? And for that matter where did Thomas get "IS" from?
Logion 13 wrote:IS said to his disciples, "Compare me to something and tell me what I am like."
Simon Peter said to him, "You are like a just messenger."
Matthew said to him, "You are like a wise philosopher."
And how exactly is this Judeo-Christian?
Simon Peter. Matthew et al are the standard Jewish/Christian characters in the traditional fictional story book about Christian origins. Which book features massive copy/pasted slabs of stuff from the Greek LXX.

The term Judeo-Christian is used to group Christianity and Judaism together, either in reference to Christianity's derivation from Judaism, Christianity's borrowing of Jewish Scripture to constitute the "Old Testament" of the Christian Bible, or due to the parallels or commonalities in Judaeo-Christian ethics shared by the two religions. The term "Judæo Christian" first appeared in the 19th century as a word for Jewish converts to Christianity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Christian

Indeed, you assert that verbatim agreement determines direction of dependence.
Let me just ask you one single dumb question:

Is it technically possible that Thomas first invented these characters Pete?
Or is it only possible that someone else first invented these characters Pete?
robert j
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Re: A call for clarity concerning Priority: separate the traditions

Post by robert j »

"Peter", a Greek loan word here, has no record of use as a personal name in Greek texts prior to this relevant time period, with πέτρος previously just a noun for a stone.

I think the following question still lacks a reasonable answer ---
robert j wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:56 pm
mlinssen wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:42 am
Simon Peter is in Thomas, logion 13 and 114 ...
With absolute Thomasine priority, how would you account for the previously unknown personal name “Peter” in logia 13 and 114 in GThomas?



From this thread, slightly re-arranged and the highlighting mine ---
mlinssen wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:13 am
Leucius Charinus wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 2:21 am
114. Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life

From where did Thomas get the characters Simon Peter and Matthew and Mary?
Logion 13 wrote:IS said to his disciples, "Compare me to something and tell me what I am like."
Simon Peter said to him, "You are like a just messenger."
Matthew said to him, "You are like a wise philosopher."
Let me just ask you one single dumb question:

Is it technically possible that Thomas first invented these characters Pete?
Or is it only possible that someone else first invented these characters Pete?
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