Locations of the writers and Polycarp

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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rgprice
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Locations of the writers and Polycarp

Post by rgprice »

At this point I've concluded that most, if not all, of the works of the New Testament were produced in Asia Minor.

It seems to me that the Pauline letter collection likely originated in Ephesus, and this is where the Gospel of Mark was written also. To this the Pauline letters to the Laodiceans and Colossians were added, and along with them the original version of the Gospel of Luke. This would of course have happened in Laodicea, right next to Ephesus. The Gospel of John, while it appears to have been produced in stages, was likely produced in its latest pre-canonical form in Ephesus as well. For Matthew, the leading theory, supported by the fact that Ignatius is apparently the earliest witness to the Gospel of Matthew, is that Matthew was produced in Syrian Antioch, not too far from Ephesus.

This supports Trobisch's theory that Polycarp of Smyrna is the one who produced canonical Luke/Acts/Pastorals and potentially the entire NT collection. From Smyrna, Polycarp would have been in close proximity to this hotbed of Gospel writing.

Polycarp is the one who published a collection of the letters of Ignatius. So, Polycarp would have been in close proximity to the locations where Mark, Luke and John were produced, and would have gotten Matthew from Ignatius.

Are there any arguments against such a conclusion?
lclapshaw
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Re: Locations of the writers and Polycarp

Post by lclapshaw »

rgprice wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 4:25 am At this point I've concluded that most, if not all, of the works of the New Testament were produced in Asia Minor.

It seems to me that the Pauline letter collection likely originated in Ephesus, and this is where the Gospel of Mark was written also. To this the Pauline letters to the Laodiceans and Colossians were added, and along with them the original version of the Gospel of Luke. This would of course have happened in Laodicea, right next to Ephesus. The Gospel of John, while it appears to have been produced in stages, was likely produced in its latest pre-canonical form in Ephesus as well. For Matthew, the leading theory, supported by the fact that Ignatius is apparently the earliest witness to the Gospel of Matthew, is that Matthew was produced in Syrian Antioch, not too far from Ephesus.

This supports Trobisch's theory that Polycarp of Smyrna is the one who produced canonical Luke/Acts/Pastorals and potentially the entire NT collection. From Smyrna, Polycarp would have been in close proximity to this hotbed of Gospel writing.

Polycarp is the one who published a collection of the letters of Ignatius. So, Polycarp would have been in close proximity to the locations where Mark, Luke and John were produced, and would have gotten Matthew from Ignatius.

Are there any arguments against such a conclusion?
I find this as convincing as any other theory, and it would help explain why Greek was used as the language. I guess my only objection would be that 1 Clement is addressed to Corinth and nothing is, besides Ephesians and the Ignatian letter to the Ephesians, addressed to Ephesus.

Lots of traditions around the NT writers and Ephesus though. Even IC's mom ended up there. ;)
rgprice
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Re: Locations of the writers and Polycarp

Post by rgprice »

Another point is that the seven churches mentioned in Revelation are:
Ephesus (Revelation 2:1–7)
Smyrna (Revelation 2:8–11)
Pergamum (Revelation 2:12–17)
Thyatira (Revelation 2:18–29)(2:20)
Sardis (Revelation 3:1–6)
Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7–13)
Laodicea (Revelation 3:14–22)

This leaves only Antioch out of the list.

So essentially, we can read the listing of churches in Revelation as the likely communities where much of the literature of the NT was produced.
Charles Wilson
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Re: Locations of the writers and Polycarp

Post by Charles Wilson »

Caesarea was a center of Roman and Herodian History and figures greatly in the History of the NT. Matthew 7: 7 - 14 is about as close a direct quote of the Purpose of Caesarea as you could find, as Herod created a Safe Harbor from which grain was off-loaded from Egypt. The Famine was severe and Herod hocked everything to buy grain from Petronius. The Priests warned the people not to get taken in by the Bribes of Herod and that Note is found in both the NT and the Histories.

For those who are intrigued by Mark-as-Play, there is a still an extant Stage where plays were performed.

...And then there is Mucianus and his travels...

CW
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Leucius Charinus
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Re: Locations of the writers and Polycarp

Post by Leucius Charinus »

rgprice wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 4:25 amPolycarp is the one who published a collection of the letters of Ignatius. So, Polycarp would have been in close proximity to the locations where Mark, Luke and John were produced, and would have gotten Matthew from Ignatius.

Are there any arguments against such a conclusion?
Joseph Wheless makes a cautionary argument against based upon the inter-dependence of the Epistle of Polycarp and the Epistles of Ignatius. How do you view the reliability / genuineness of the Ignatian epistles?
Joseph Wheless wrote:Only one Epistle, addressed to the Philippians, remains of Polycarp, and of it CE. discusses the "serious question" of its genuineness, which depends upon that of the Ignatian Epistles, and vice versa, above discussed; it says: "If the former were forgeries, the latter, which supports -- it might almost be said presupposes -- them, must be a forgery from the same hand." (CE. xii, 219.)
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