dbz wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:42 am [quote="Leucius Charinus" post_id=150345 time=1676947392 user_Christian scripture teaches that god alone is good (Luke 18:19). Marcion, following Plato, went further by his assumption that god, to be god, must be good—in fact the Good and source of all good for all beings. This [MIDDLE] Platonized Christian divinity was immensely powerful but had one limitation: he could not do evil. Indeed, it was sacrilegious to say that god did anything morally base.
By Marcion’s time, belief in god's exclusive goodness had become cultural common coin. The idea appears in Philo, Plutarch, Alcinous, Numenius, and Apuleius—all leading Middle Platonists of the period. The Chaldean Oracles scold the ignorant: “you do not know that every god is good, you drudges. Sober up!” Bellerophon, a character in one of Euripides’s famous plays, declared “If the gods do something bad, they are not gods.” The idea that god(s) must be good was widespread. In essence, then, all Marcion had to show was that the actions and character of the Judean creator were not—or not exclusively—good. Marcion could thereby show that the Judean god was no god at, but rather an imposter. (p. 61)
—Litwa, M. David (2021). The Evil Creator: Origins of an Early Christian Idea. Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-0-19-756643-5. "[Source: Publisher] This book examines the origins of the evil creator idea chiefly in light of early Christian biblical interpretations. It is divided into two parts. In Part I, the focus is on the interpretations of Exodus and John. Firstly, ancient Egyptian assimilation of the Jewish god to the evil deity Seth-Typhon is studied to understand its reapplication by Phibionite and Sethian Christians to the Judeo-catholic creator. Secondly, the Christian reception of John 8:44 (understood to refer to the devil's father) is shown to implicate the Judeo-catholic creator in murdering Christ. Part II focuses on Marcionite Christian biblical interpretations. It begins with Marcionite interpretations of the creator's character in the Christian "Old Testament," analyzes 2 Corinthians 4:4 (in which "the god of this world" blinds people from Christ's glory), examines Christ's so-called destruction of the Law (Eph 2:15) and the Lawgiver, and shows how Christ finally succumbs to the "curse of the Law" inflicted by the creator (Gal 3:13). A concluding chapter shows how still today readers of the Christian Bible have concluded that the creator manifests an evil character."
Interesting book, well worth reading.
As to the creator god being evil - methinks an 'evil' principle is a necessary part, not of human physical existence but of our intellectual capacity. We think up ideas - and whether or not they are good or bad ideas, sooner or later the ideas will be 'taken out' by better, more useful ideas. Which is basically to say that destruction is a creator's prerogative. Thus, an 'evil god' is a big part of our human condition. (evil in the physical sense is obviously inhumane). The OT - with all it's stories of destruction of Israelite enemies - is simply giving voice to the 'evil' principle that has enabled humans to be intellectually where we are today.
What the New Testament story has done is demonstrate that the OT principle of a negative dualism, an evil god, is replaced, on terra firma, by a positive dualism between man and man - neither Jew nor Greek. Which basically points to a god of love, of love of neighbour. A reversal of sorts, a new Jerusalem on earth.
It is of course not a choice between these two gods, the evil god and the god of love. Both have their place, both have their context in which they can be of value. The OT god and the NT god are not antagonists when confined to their own context, a context in which each can have value.
Perhaps it's time for the 'evil god' to demonstrate that he still has the power to destroy - to destroy any ideas that are contributing to the disastrous political situation the world now faces. Or is it always going to be a case that we never learn.....yep, we need food in our bellies - but without ideas of value in our heads - we will not only stagnate but become immune to any intellectual spark that strives for growth. More love in the world is not the answer - ideas are needed - that old 'evil god' is needed to do some intellectual housekeeping....