The Q version, of course, originated in the circles of those for whom Jesus was the Prophet like Moses.
(Robert M. Price, The Gospels Behind the Gospels, p. 61)
2) also the Samaritan False Prophet killed by Pilate posed as "the Prophet like Moses" and he was probably Dositheus.
3) If the source Q knew about a Jesus killed by Pilate, then it would have mentioned Pilate, in order to distinguish his own Jesus from any distinct contemporary figure who posed also as "the Prophet like Moses".
4) But it is a FACT that Pilate is never mentioned in the source Q.
Therefore: Jesus was not still connected with Pilate, by the time the source Q was written.
Corollary: the connection Jesus/Pilate, considered as the more solid historicist evidence by historicists, vanishes entirely as a mere invention of later gospels (Mark or proto-Luke), once the need was more and more strong, of a distinction between Jesus and the rival Samaritan Dositheus.
An undated Jesus is therefore not a historical Jesus.
Earl Doherty is right: the source Q is evidence against the historicity of Jesus.
According to Earl Doherty, "Jesus: Neither God Nor Man", page 310-311:
The exact extent of Q is still a matter of debate, but its main content has been reasonably well established. For the most part, Q was made up of a collection of sayings...
Once the elements comprising Q were identified and mapped out, it became evident that Q included different kinds of material. Two broad types are obvious. The first is found in several clusters of sayings with a common atmosphere, style and purpose. They focus on ethics and discipleship and closely resemble the genre of Jewish "wisdom" collections, as in the Book of Proverbs, attributed to Solomon. There were pagan collections as well, such as that attributed to the 6th century BCE Solon of Athens. (Attributions of both were generally legendary.) Such collections offered sage advice on how to survive the vicissitudes of existence, be successful in life, and relate to divine forces in the universe. Such advice might be aimed at the governing class or the common person
Which are the Wisdom sayings and Pagan collections sayings about Pilate that are missing from Q, in your opinion?
GakuseiDon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:47 am
Which are the Wisdom sayings and Pagan collections sayings about Pilate that are missing from Q, in your opinion?
“Q” (for Quelle, “source” in German) is a specific reference to a hypothetical document (and not oral lore, but an actual written book) behind both the narrative and speaking additions to Mark found in common between Matthew and Luke
...and:
It is not a gospel or a narrative. So, not Q.
Hence, in a narrative the mention of Pilate is not less expected than a saying or a dialogue. My point is that the mention of Pilate had to be expected by a document written by a Mosaic Jesus Sect, if a such set wanted to distinguish his own Jesus from the contemporary Dositheus.
Q, by contrast, if it existed at all, has to be a narrative document (e.g. it includes stories about John the Baptist, it links the Great Sermon to the story of the Centurion’s Son, etc.). Even MacDonald agrees with that point (his version has it as a narrative rewrite of Deuteronomy). So, a mere collection of post-mortem private revelations won’t be Q, any more than the Book of Revelation is Q.
