Justin Martyr: highlighted NS in First Apology & Trypho

[mlinssen]

..
.... Moses prayed the people were stronger... he made the sign of the cross ... one who bore the name of Ἰῦ was in the forefront of the battle
.

Isn't that something?

The Defeat of the Amalekites (BSB)

8 After this, the Amalekites came and attacked the Israelites at Rephidim.
9 So Moses said to Joshua, “Choose some of our men and go out to fight the Amalekites. Tomorrow I will stand on the hilltop with the staff of God in my hand.”
10 Joshua did as Moses had instructed him and fought against the Amalekites, while Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill.
11 As long as Moses held up his hands, Israel prevailed; but when he lowered them, Amalek prevailed.
12 When Moses’ hands grew heavy, they took a stone and put it under him, and he sat on it. Then Aaron and Hur held his hands up, one on each side, so that his hands remained steady until the sun went down.
13 So Joshua overwhelmed Amalek and his army with the sword.

Now, what's the real story?

9 Moses said to Joshua, “Pick some troops for us, and go out and do battle with Amalek. Tomorrow I will station myself on the top of the hill, with the rod of God in my hand.”
10 Joshua did as Moses told him and fought with Amalek, while Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill.
11 Then, whenever Moses held up his hand, Israel prevailed; but whenever he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed.
12 But Moses’ hands grew heavy; so they took a stone and put it under him and he sat on it, while Aaron and Hur, one on each side, supported his hands; thus his hands remained steady until the sun set.
13 And Joshua overwhelmed the people of Amalek with the sword.

Similar enough, although the hand initially is singular.
Yet go sit down, and ask someone to hold your hand: you will become a Y instead of a T that way. Likely this was the best they could find, but no way that this supports the invention of a cross - yet it is undeniable that they go through great lengths in order to come up with a story about a cross, precisely because there wasn't one.
Nor predicted one, of course

[MrMacSon]

Similar enough, although the hand initially is singular.

Not to Justin:

chapter 90, in part:

Justin: "When the people waged war with Amalek, and the son of Naun by name [Ἰῦ], led the fight, Moses himself prayed to God, stretching out both hands, and Hur with Aaron supported them during the whole day, so that they might not hang down when he got wearied. For if he gave up any part of this sign, which was an imitation of the cross, the people were beaten, as is recorded in the writings of Moses; but if he remained in this form, Amawaslek was proportionally defeated, and he who prevailed prevailed by the cross. For it was not because Moses so prayed that the people were stronger, but because, while one who bore the name of [Ἰῦ] was in the forefront of the battle, he himself made the sign of the cross. For who of you knows not that the prayer of one who accompanies it with lamentation and tears, with the body prostrate, or with bended knees, propitiates God most of all? But in such a manner neither he nor any other one, while sitting on a stone, prayed. Nor even the stone symbolized Christ, as I have shown. .

. 4 Ὅτε ὁ λαός, φημί, ἐπολέμει τῷ Ἀμαλὴκ καὶ ὁ τοῦ Ναυῆ υἱός, ὁ ἐπονομασθεὶς τῷ Ἰῦ ὀνόματι, τῆς μάχης ἦρχεν, αὐτὸς Μωυσῆς ηὔχετο τῷ θεῷ τὰς χεῖρας ἑκατέρως ἐκπετάσας, Ὣρ δὲ καὶ Ἀαρὼν ὑπεβάσταζον αὐτὰς πανῆμαρ, ἵνα μὴ κοπωθέντος αὐτοῦ χαλασθῶσιν. εἰ γὰρ ἐνεδεδώκει τι τοῦ σχήματος τούτου τοῦ τὸν σταυρὸν μιμουμένου, ὡς γέγραπται ἐν ταῖς Μωυσέως γραφαῖς· ὁ λαὸς ἡττᾶτο· εἰ δὲ ἐν τῇ τάξει ἔμενε ταύτῃ, Ἀμαλὴκ ἐνικᾶτο τοσοῦτον, καὶ ἰσχύων διὰ τοῦ σταυροῦ ἴσχυεν. 5 οὐ γάρ, ὅτι οὕτως ηὔχετο Μωυσῆς, διὰ τοῦτο κρείσσων ὁ λαὸς ἐγίνετο, ἀλλ' ὅτι, ἐν ἀρχῇ τῆς μάχης τοῦ ὀνόματος τοῦ Ἰῦ ὄντος, αὐτὸς τὸ σημεῖον τοῦ σταυροῦ ἐποίει. τίς γὰρ οὐκ ἐπίσταται ὑμῶν, ὅτι μάλιστα μὲν ἡ μετὰ οἴκτου καὶ δακρύων εὐχὴ μειλίσσεται τὸν θεὸν καὶ ἡ ἐν πρηνεῖ κατακλίσει καὶ ἐν γόνασιν ὀκλάσαντός τινος; τοῦτον δὲ τὸν τρόπον ἐπὶ λίθου καθεζόμενος οὔτε αὐτὸς ηὔξατο οὔτε ἄλλος ὕστερον. ἔχει δὲ καὶ ὁ λίθος σύμβολον, ὡς ἀπέδειξα, πρὸς τὸν Χν.

..
.... Moses prayed that the people were stronger... he made the sign of the cross ... one who bore the name of Ἰῦ was in the forefront of the battle
.

Note "this sign...was an imitation of the cross"

The text of Exodus 17 that Justin is referring to and which you quote includes hands plural:

The Defeat of the Amalekites (BSB)

8 After this, the Amalekites came and attacked the Israelites at Rephidim.
9 So Moses said to Joshua, “Choose some of our men and go out to fight the Amalekites. Tomorrow I will stand on the hilltop with the staff of God in my hand.”
10 Joshua did as Moses had instructed him and fought against the Amalekites, while Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill.
11 As long as Moses held up his hands, Israel prevailed; but when he lowered them, Amalek prevailed.
12 When Moses’ hands grew heavy, they took a stone and put it under him, and he sat on it. Then Aaron and Hur held his hands up, one on each side, so that his hands remained steady until the sun went down.
13 So Joshua overwhelmed Amalek and his army with the sword.

The ✞ versus Y shape thing is unnecessary speculation

---

FWIW, the relevant verses in Exodus 14 wrt to The Lord using Moses to part the Red Sea:

15 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Why are you crying out to me? Tell the Israelites to move on. 16 Raise your staff and stretch out your hand over the sea to divide the water so that the Israelites can go through the sea on dry ground ...

19 Then the angel of God, who had been traveling in front of Israel’s army, withdrew and went behind them. The pillar of cloud also moved from in front and stood behind them, 20 coming between the armies of Egypt and Israel. Throughout the night the cloud brought darkness to the one side and light to the other side; so neither went near the other all night long.

21 Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and all that night the Lord drove the sea back with a strong east wind and turned it into dry land. The waters were divided, 22 and the Israelites went through the sea on dry ground, with a wall of water on their right and on their left.

23 The Egyptians pursued them, and all Pharaoh’s horses and chariots and horsemen followed them into the sea. 24 During the last watch of the night the Lord looked down from the pillar of fire and cloud at the Egyptian army and threw it into confusion. 25 He jammed the wheels of their chariots so that they had difficulty driving. And the Egyptians said, “Let’s get away from the Israelites! The Lord is fighting for them against Egypt.”

26 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand over the sea so that the waters may flow back over the Egyptians and their chariots and horsemen.” 27 Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and at daybreak the sea went back to its place. The Egyptians were fleeing toward it, and the Lord swept them into the sea. 28 The water flowed back and covered the chariots and horsemen—the entire army of Pharaoh that had followed the Israelites into the sea. Not one of them survived.

29 But the Israelites went through the sea on dry ground, with a wall of water on their right and on their left. 30 That day the Lord saved Israel from the hands of the Egyptians, and Israel saw the Egyptians lying dead on the shore. 31 And when the Israelites saw the mighty hand of the Lord displayed against the Egyptians, the people feared the Lord and put their trust in him and in Moses his servant.

[mlinssen]

The ✞ versus Y shape thing is unnecessary speculation

It all depends on the thickness of the stone really; if there is no stone at all then the arms are in a really fat Y-shape, assuming that all three people are of equal size - and that also assumes that the hands are held at the fingertips, not at the wrists

But as usual I'll give you a proper chance to finish your sentence: let me help you out here

The ✞ versus Y shape thing is unnecessary speculation, BECAUSE ...

.

[mlinssen]

Here you go

download.jpeg (7.37 KiB) Viewed 351 times

download (1).jpeg (9.06 KiB) Viewed 351 times

images.jpeg (12.18 KiB) Viewed 351 times

And there's more for your perusing pleasure:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Moses,+ ... ur&biw=412

Hit pictures

[MrMacSon]

Wow. They didn't just hold Moses arms up so the Israelites would prevail over Amaleki and the Amalekites; they also held them up for the contemporaneous recording artists to complete the historical record artwork ...

[mlinssen]

Wow. They didn't just hold Moses arms up so the Israelites would prevail over Amaleki and the Amalekites; they also held them up for the contemporaneous recording artists to complete the historical record artwork ...

Bad hair day Mac?

Is today "owww very difficult day to admit that we're wrong" day?
You could at least try to argue for the staff to be in both hands, which would form your so very necessary horizontal top bar - even though you know that the FF missed that chance as well

There was only a stake.
Mark inventing the resurrection suddenly required a dignified death, hence all the ink spilled on this particular apology.
And naturally, nothing in the world could have predicted that - because regardless of what happened or didn't happen, even if Jesus did raise people from the dead and do all the other stuff, and even if he was the son of Gawd "for real": he wasn't executed on a T-shaped device, and all the fake and false stories assuming for that are precisely that: fake and false, and obviously bogus

It's alright Mac, even Ben didn't notice!

LOL