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Apollos (of Acts 18) == Paul ⟶ Paul a previous follower of the Samaritan Impostor slain by Pilate
Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 3:19 am
by Giuseppe
Apollos's conversion to Christianity is a different version of the same conversion of Paul to Christianity. Obviously, if there were
more Christian sects, nothing would have prevented Paul from doing
more conversions, one for each sect.
The implication is that Paul was a follower of the Baptist before that he becomes a follower of Jesus (obviously: of the
risen Jesus).
The
Baptist is the Samaritan Impostor slain by Pilate.
It follows that Paul had abandoned the sect that preserved the memory of the Samaritan Impostor, to become a member of the Jesus cult. This explains why the name of Pilate, connected (historically) with the Samaritan Impostor, ended to be connected with the Jesus of paper.
Paul/Apollos would have justified his conversion from the Baptist/Dositheus sect to the Jesus sect,
by making the Baptist/Dositheus a precursor of Jesus.
Result: Pilate becomes virtually (on table) the killer of Jesus, too.
Re: Apollos (of Acts 18) == Paul ⟶ Paul a previous follower of the Samaritan Impostor slain by Pilate
Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 3:30 am
by Giuseppe
Hence, this reinforces my certainty that Jesus (whoever he was: his original identity doesn't matter here) was dated in relation to "John the Baptist", i.e. in relation to the Samaritan false prophet slain by Pilate, and by logical extension, sub Pilato.
Re: Apollos (of Acts 18) == Paul ⟶ Paul a previous follower of the Samaritan Impostor slain by Pilate
Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 3:54 am
by Giuseppe
Not coincidentially, the same Acts's information ("Apollos" aware only of the "baptism of John", i.e. Paul follower of John/Dositheus) is paralleled by the Valentinian information about Paul aware of a guy called "Theudas", i.e. Paul follower of John/Theudas, where Theudas==Dositheus.
Re: Apollos (of Acts 18) == Paul ⟶ Paul a previous follower of the Samaritan Impostor slain by Pilate
Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 4:12 am
by Giuseppe
In past, many have already observed this identity Paul == Apollos. They had derived different implications:
- 1) Arthur Heulhard and Daniel Massè: Paul was really a follower of John the Baptist, i.e. John of Gamala, a son of Judas the Galilean (and the real "historical Jesus").
- 2) André Wautier: Paul was really a follower of John the Baptist, i.e. Dositheus/Theudas, i.e. the Samaritan Impostor slain by Pilate (and the real "historical Jesus").
- 3) Jean Magne: "Paul" (as mere name of a group of anonymous writers) was really a follower of "John", i.e. the anti-demiurgist icon of the Gnostic Revealer of Gnosis.
In all the three cases, the logical corollary is that the justification is found, about why "John the Baptist" had to precede,
on paper, the Jesus of paper (by implication: the final answer to the question: why
sub Pilato).
Now, the
problem is that I disagree with all the cited authors above,
even if I concede the truth of the premise (that Paul == Apollos and accordingly that the connection Paul/"John the Baptist" has to be examined further).
Re: Apollos (of Acts 18) == Paul ⟶ Paul a previous follower of the Samaritan Impostor slain by Pilate
Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 4:40 am
by Giuseppe
The only other connection between Paul and the Samaritan Impostor slain by Pilate is the hypothesis that Paul == Simon Magus. The latter also is said to have abandoned Dositheus/John to follow "Jesus", i.e. in Simonian terms: Simon himself.
Re: Apollos (of Acts 18) == Paul ⟶ Paul a previous follower of the Samaritan Impostor slain by Pilate
Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 6:08 am
by Giuseppe
The obvious objection would be that a Paul lived in 50 CE never knew about the Samaritan Impostor slain by Pilate. Because a Paul lived in 50 CE could only see Jesus crucified in outer space.
This ceases to be true only if we date Paul after the 70, since only by then a Paul would have had interest to merge traditions connected with the Samaritan Impostor slain by Pilate with the traditions connected with a Jesus (whoever he was).
We know how that merge was made, artificially on paper: by placing Jesus sub Pilato.
Re: Apollos (of Acts 18) == Paul ⟶ Paul a previous follower of the Samaritan Impostor slain by Pilate
Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:56 pm
by Leucius Charinus
Giuseppe wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 3:19 am
Apollos's conversion to Christianity is a different version of the same conversion of Paul to Christianity.
Codex Bezae has "Apollonius" (think "of Tyana")
Re: Apollos (of Acts 18) == Paul ⟶ Paul a previous follower of the Samaritan Impostor slain by Pilate
Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:50 pm
by Giuseppe
Leucius Charinus wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:56 pm
Giuseppe wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 3:19 am
Apollos's conversion to Christianity is a different version of the same conversion of Paul to Christianity.
Codex Bezae has "Apollonius" (think "of Tyana")
https://www.academia.edu/98630702/_A_Ca ... sentation_
Re: Apollos (of Acts 18) == Paul ⟶ Paul a previous follower of the Samaritan Impostor slain by Pilate
Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:20 am
by Leucius Charinus
Thanks very much Giuseppe.
An interesting read.
SA gets a mention.
Flavian ?
Conclusion
What seems to come through from the historical Apollonius is that he deconstructed—debunked—religions with their rites and sacrifices, which he regarded as unnecessary and unwanted by the true Invisible God. In so doing Apollonius appears to have consciously joined, entered into, become initiated into, various contemporary religions and their practices, only to debunk them. The way Paul uses Jewish scripture and a conception of a Jewish messiah to deconstruct and argue for the Jewish religion being obsolete can be understood as in keeping with the modus operandus of Apollonius. That is, what Paul did with Judaism is the kind of thing Apollonius would do.
I'd have to think about that.
"Most scholars consider the letters attributed to Apollonius to be pseudepigraphic."
Most scholars have doubts about which letters attributed to Paul are genuine. And besides what about the books written by Apollonius? And his inscription. Apollonius IMO has a greater measure of historicity than either Paul or Jesus.
Eusebius cites a book authored by Apollonius as an authority on how to make sacrifice.
The Mystic Rites or Concerning Sacrifices.
[The full title is given by Eudocia, Ionia; ed. Villoison (Venet 1781) p 57]
This treatise is mentioned by Philostratus (iii 41; iv 19),
who tells us that it set down the proper method of sacrifice
to every God, the proper hours of prayer and offering.
It was in wide circulation, and Philostratus had come across
copies of it in many temples and cities,
and in the libraries of philosophers.
Several fragments of it have been preserved, [See Zeller, Phil d Griech, v 127]
the most important of which is to be found in Eusebius,
[Præparat. Evangel., iv 12-13; ed Dindorf (Leipzig 1867), i 176, 177]
and is to this effect:
“ ‘Tis best to make no sacrifice to God at all,
no lighting of a fire,
no calling Him by any name
that men employ for things to sense.
For God is over all, the first;
and only after Him do come the other Gods.
For He doth stand in need of naught
e’en from the Gods,
much less from us small men -
naught that the earth brings forth,
nor any life she nurseth,
or even any thing the stainless air contains.
The only fitting sacrifice to God
is man’s best reason,
and not the word
that comes from out his mouth.
“We men should ask the best of beings
through the best thing in us,
for what is good -
mean by means of mind,
for mind needs no material things
to make its prayer.
So then, to God, the mighty One,
who’s over all,
no sacrifice should ever be lit up.”
Noack [Psyche, I ii.5.] tells us that scholarship
is convinced of the genuineness of this fragment.
This book, as we have seen, was widely circulated
and held in the highest respect, and it said that
its rules were engraved on brazen pillars
at Byzantium. [Noack, ibid.]
http://mountainman.com.au/essenes/autho ... 0Tyana.htm
The books of Apollonius were supposedly preserved in the libraries associated with the major temples of Asclepius. These books in all likelihood were destroyed when the temples were themselves destroyed.
Re: Apollos (of Acts 18) == Paul ⟶ Paul a previous follower of the Samaritan Impostor slain by Pilate
Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:29 am
by Giuseppe
Note that also Greg thinks that Apollos of Acts 18 is Paul. I am curious about what he thinks about the association Paul/John the Baptist.
The assumption is that the author of Acts didn't know that Apollos was Paul, differently from his source, hence the connection of Paul with John the Baptist has to be re-valued even more, as something of more credible than what Acts says us about Paul.
As to Apollonius of Tyana, I should read Phlostratus to see other parallelisms.