nightshadetwine wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:05 pm
lclapshaw wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:58 pm
nightshadetwine wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:45 pm
lclapshaw wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:51 am
nightshadetwine wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:30 am
Although I think there was more likely a historical Jesus, this argument is pretty bad. I don't doubt that anti-Semites would want to try to remove Jesus from his Jewish context but to try to associate anyone who questions whether Jesus existed with anti-Semitism is ridiculous. I'm sure I saw a recent blogpost somewhere by an apologist trying to associate comparing Jesus to other Greco-Roman deities with ant-Semitism. These people are desperate to not have anyone question the consensus. I'm someone who thinks the stories about Jesus are likely influenced by deities like Osiris, Dionysus, Romulus, Heracles, Asclepius, etc. but it's not to try to remove Jesus from his Jewish context. You don't have to be a mythicist to think this. The texts of the New Testament are written in Greek by Hellenized Jews so it's not surprising to see both Jewish and Greco-Roman or "pagan" influences.
Just out of curiosity, why do you think that Hellenized Jews wrote the NT? Why not just Greeks and Romans?
I guess because they quote from the Hebrew scriptures and seem to be familiar with Jewish customs and religion. I guess it's possible some of them weren't Jewish. Why, you don't think they were Jewish?
But nothing concrete, just because Hebrew scriptures were used.
Right?
Pretty much yeah. I don't think there's many things we can say for sure about the authors of the NT texts or almost anything when it comes to early Christianity haha.
Oh but we can; we can say with guaranteed certainty that the use of Hebrew scripture was fake and false. Ask any Judaic whether they acknowledge the Christian Messiah, and they'll laugh hard in the best case scenario: Jesus' achievements are just grabbed from text, most of it mistranslated, and the vast majority had nothing to do with what the Judaic Messiah would bring about
My favourite prophecy is that of the Bethlehem massacre:
[ETA: tidied up the formatting alone]
Matt 2:17 Then what was spoken through the prophet Jeremiah was fulfilled:
Τότε ἐπληρώθη τὸ ῥηθὲν διὰ Ἱερεμίου τοῦ προφήτου λέγοντος·
Matt 2:18 “A voice is heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping [for] her children, and refusing consolation, because they are no more.”
φωνὴ ἐν ̔Ραμᾶ ἠκούσθη, κλαυθμὸς καὶ ὀδυρμὸς πολύς, ̔Ραχὴλ κλαίουσα τὰ τέκνα αὐτῆς, καὶ οὐκ ἤθελεν παρακληθῆναι ὅτι οὐκ εἰσίν.
Jer 31:15 This is what the LORD says: “A voice is heard in Ramah, mourning and great weeping, Rachel weeping for her children, [and] refusing consolation, because they are no more.”
Οὕτως εἶπεν κύριος Φωνὴ ἐν Ραμα ἠκούσθη/ θρήνου καὶ κλαυθμοῦ καὶ ὀδυρμοῦ· Ραχηλ ἀποκλαιομένη οὐκ ἤθελεν παύσασθαι ἐπὶ τοῖς υἱοῖς αὐτῆς, ὅτι οὐκ εἰσίν.
Jer 31:16 This is what the LORD says: “Keep your voice from weeping and your eyes from tears, for the reward for your work will come, declares the LORD. Then [your children] will return from the land of the enemy.
οὕτως εἶπεν κύριος Διαλιπέτω ἡ φωνή σου, ἀπὸ κλαυθμοῦ καὶ οἱ ὀφθαλμοί σου ἀπὸ δακρύων σου ὅτι ἔστιν μισθὸς τοῖς σοῖς ἔργοις, καὶ ἐπιστρέψουσιν ἐκ γῆς ἐχθρῶν,
Jer 31:17 So there is hope for your future, declares the LORD, and your children will return to their own land.
μόνιμον τοῖς σοῖς τέκνοις.
Christianity is the phoniest and fakest religion on earth