Secret Alias wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 9:43 am
Clement abbreviated words. Christian is usually not abbreviated.
Interesting. When does the material that you are quoting date from?
It was either Ante Nicene Christian Library (ANCL) Edinburgh series vol #4 (1867) or #12 (1869), or vol #2 of the Ante Nicene Fathers (ANF) US series (1885), the latter of which can be downloaded from CCEL, with all Greek or Hebrew text in entries or footnotes is in Unicode. The translator was William Wilson.
The Greek text probably came from BibleWorks or Logos software. You can also download the original Greek (in Unicode!) from Ruslan Khazarzar
Secret Alias wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 12:43 pm
Surely you aren't against the idea of monks copying out manuscripts. Oh look the Sistine Chapel dates from only a few years ago
StephenGoranson wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 10:23 am
Other than a trivial spelling issue,
do these "two" have distinct
beliefs
practices
myths
rituals
scriptures
histories...?
Oh go on then Stiphin, please explain why it is trivial.
May I remind you of the picture that unfolds when going through all extant MSS that have been transcribed so far?
I can answer your question after that, ta
As someone who respects your research into this matter, and without suggesting this inscription contradicts it, I wonder if you have any comment on the inscription discovered in 1970, apparently dating approximately 350 to the king Ezana (with the typical identification of the king here).
This is from the original French article with the Greek text of the inscription.
Attachments
inscription-ezana.png (162.01 KiB) Viewed 684971 times
In the faith of God and the power of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit who saved for me the kingdom, by the faith of his son Jesus Christ, who has helped me and will always help me. I Azanas king of the Aksumites, and Himyarites, and Reeidan and of the Sabaeans and of Sileel and of Khaso and of the Beja and of Tiamo, Bisi Alene, son of Ella Amida servant of Christ thank the Lord my God, and I am unable to state fully his favors because my mouth and my mind cannot (embrace) all the favors which he has given me, for he has given me strength and power and favored me with a great name through his son in whom I believed. And he made me the guide of all my kingdom because of my faith in Christ by his will and in the power of Christ, for he has guided me. And I believe in him and he became to be a guide. I went out to fight the Noba because there cried out against them, the Mangartho and Khasa and Atiaditai and Bareotai saying that `the Noba have ground us down; help us because they have troubled us by killing’. And I left by the power of Christ the God in whom I have believed and he has guided me and I departed from Aksum on the eighth day, a Saturday, of the Aksumite month of Magabit having faith in God and arrived in Mambarya and there I fed my army.
StephenGoranson wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 10:23 am
Other than a trivial spelling issue,
do these "two" have distinct
beliefs
practices
myths
rituals
scriptures
histories...?
Oh go on then Stiphin, please explain why it is trivial.
May I remind you of the picture that unfolds when going through all extant MSS that have been transcribed so far?
I can answer your question after that, ta
As somoene who respects your research into this matter, and without suggesting this inscription contradicts it, I wonder if you have any comment on the inscription discovered in 1970, apparently dating approximately 350 to the king Ezana (with the typical identification of the king here).
This is from the original French article with the Greek text of the inscription.
Thanks Peter, never heard of it. I presume Jesus Christ to be in full in the inscription itself, can you lead me to the MS please?
(I think it's in the link you provided in next post, never mind)
It definitely smells very very interesting, I'll digest later today
Peter Kirby wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 10:25 pm
As somoene who respects your research into this matter, and without suggesting this inscription contradicts it, I wonder if you have any comment on the inscription discovered in 1970, apparently dating approximately 350 to the king Ezana (with the typical identification of the king here).
This is from the original French article with the Greek text of the inscription.
I have found quite a different transcription - plus photograph - in German. Screenshot, can't copy:
Deutsche Aksum-Expedition: Sabaische, griechische und altabessinische Inschriften, Volume 4 - Enno Littmann
SabaischeGriechischeUndAltabessinischeInschriftenDAE11.jpg (483.74 KiB) Viewed 684948 times
I think this is another inscription from the one you have provided. I'll whip out the laptop later today
Also, do observe page 12 of that book, it contains 3 versions of the similar inscription - in language and semantics that we would expect, naming spoils and such. My first impression is that these are earlier for sure
Last edited by mlinssen on Sat May 06, 2023 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mlinssen wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 11:39 pm
I think this is another inscription from the one you have provided. I'll whip out the laptop later today
It is different. The inscription with the Christian stuff was first published in 1970, in the French article I cited poorly above (F. Anfray, "Une nouvelle inscription grecque d'Ezana, roi d'Axoum," Journal des savants, 1970, n°4. pp. 260-274). Before then, there was no unambiguous inscription from this king that referred to Christian stuff. The previously known inscription that was much discussed used a much more ambiguous "Lord of Heaven" phrase. (An article I read says that this is because Christianity was adopted from the top down and the king didn't want to offend popular religious sensibilities.)
I would like to see the inscription itself, but so far the closest I've seen is the 1970 article's transcription of the Greek.
The original article should have a photograph, but the online copy of the article I accessed didn't have it.
Secret Alias wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 9:43 am
Clement abbreviated words. Christian is usually not abbreviated.
Interesting. When does the material that you are quoting date from?
It was either Ante Nicene Christian Library (ANCL) Edinburgh series vol #4 (1867) or #12 (1869), or vol #2 of the Ante Nicene Fathers (ANF) US series (1885), the latter of which can be downloaded from CCEL, with all Greek or Hebrew text in entries or footnotes is in Unicode. The translator was William Wilson.
The Greek text probably came from BibleWorks or Logos software. You can also download the original Greek (in Unicode!) from Ruslan Khazarzar
mlinssen wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 11:39 pm
I think this is another inscription from the one you have provided. I'll whip out the laptop later today
It is different. The inscription with the Christian stuff was first published in 1970, in the French article I cited poorly above (F. Anfray, "Une nouvelle inscription grecque d'Ezana, roi d'Axoum," Journal des savants, 1970, n°4. pp. 260-274). Before then, there was no unambiguous inscription from this king that referred to Christian stuff. The previously known inscription that was much discussed used a much more ambiguous "Lord of Heaven" phrase. (An article I read says that this is because Christianity was adopted from the top down and the king didn't want to offend popular religious sensibilities.)
I would like to see the inscription itself, but so far the closest I've seen is the 1970 article's transcription of the Greek.
The original article should have a photograph, but the online copy of the article I accessed didn't have it.
The Ezana Stone is an ancient stele still standing in modern day Axum in Ethiopia, the centre of the ancient Kingdom of Aksum. This stone monument, that probably dates from the 4th century of the Christian era, documents the conversion of King Ezana to Christianity and his conquest of various neighbouring areas, including Meroë.
mlinssen wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 11:39 pm
I think this is another inscription from the one you have provided. I'll whip out the laptop later today
It is different. The inscription with the Christian stuff was first published in 1970, in the French article I cited poorly above (F. Anfray, "Une nouvelle inscription grecque d'Ezana, roi d'Axoum," Journal des savants, 1970, n°4. pp. 260-274). Before then, there was no unambiguous inscription from this king that referred to Christian stuff. The previously known inscription that was much discussed used a much more ambiguous "Lord of Heaven" phrase. (An article I read says that this is because Christianity was adopted from the top down and the king didn't want to offend popular religious sensibilities.)
I would like to see the inscription itself, but so far the closest I've seen is the 1970 article's transcription of the Greek.
The original article should have a photograph, but the online copy of the article I accessed didn't have it.
The Ezana Stone is an ancient stele still standing in modern day Axum in Ethiopia, the centre of the ancient Kingdom of Aksum. This stone monument, that probably dates from the 4th century of the Christian era, documents the conversion of King Ezana to Christianity and his conquest of various neighbouring areas, including Meroë.
Nuff said, me thinks
I'm out hunting for da real thang
Sounds good.
This is not the "Ezana Stone" of the Wikipedia article. It is in Greek, first published in 1970, not trilingual. And the "Ezana Stone" does not document a conversion to Christianity. It has a reference to the "Lord of Heaven," which has often been interpreted as a reference to Christian faith but which certainly does not make such a faith completely explicit.
The "nuff said" seems practically impossible to interpret and kind of refutes itself. And it necessitates the previous paragraph because enough was not said.
