David Trobisch "What if everything was just made up? About literature and the experience of resonance"

[Giuseppe]

It would be very unfortunate, that you could ask him about this precise point above and have failed the occasion.

[Steven Avery]

we can't know if Jesus existed or less, because the more earliest story about him has him descending from heaven already adult.

Doesn’t this assume Markan priority?

Ben Smith neatly showed that Mark is dependent on Luke.

Luke writing to the high priest Theophilus c. AD 41 also makes an earlier Mark unlikely.

So your argument would only work for professed Markan prioritists, who hold the position with strong conviction.

It would be unfortunate to never hear from David Trobisch the reasons for his supports for Sinaiticus being produced around AD 600-700.

[Peter Kirby]

Ben Smith neatly showed that Mark is dependent on Luke.

Link?

[Secret Alias]

Luke writing to the high priest Theophilus c. AD 41 also makes an earlier Mark unlikely.

Yeah me being able to levitate proves that I am ruler of the world too. Me winning the lottery will solve all my problems. Me coming up with an amazing app will make me a millionaire. etc.

[Peter Kirby]

Luke writing to the high priest Theophilus c. AD 41 also makes an earlier Mark unlikely.

If we're allowing such speculation, how is an earlier Mark ruled out? It seems entirely arbitrary.

Acts 1:1 addresses "Theophilus" too, which would put these dual references to "Theophilus" no earlier than whenever Paul was taken to Rome (if we're allowing these kinds of speculations about an early date for Luke). Or, even if these references were not created at the same time, it would, at the very least, disprove the idea that "Theophilus" = c. AD 41 because that date is not possible for Acts.

Luke 1:1 refers to "many" drawing up an account before, so if not Mark, then at least some other many texts. And if many, why not Mark?

[Ulan]

This would need further clarification, anyway. Ben thought that canonical gMark had a predecessor text, mostly because of the duplications, like the whole Bethsaida section. A shorter version of gMark, not gLuke. That gMark predecessor would then, among others, lead to gMarcion and gMark, etc. His synoptic "working" model had a few more steps.

[Peter Kirby]

This would need further clarification, anyway. Ben thought that canonical gMark had a predecessor text, mostly because of the duplications, like the whole Bethsaida section. A shorter version of gMark, not gLuke. That gMark predecessor would then, among others, lead to gMarcion and gMark, etc. His synoptic "working" model had a few more steps.

Link? I'm curious to see Ben Smith's presentation of it.

[Ulan]

I don't have a link to his whole model at the moment, but his discussion of the Bethsaida section and its implications for gMark is here:
viewtopic.php?t=2554

[mlinssen]

I don't have a link to his whole model at the moment, but his discussion of the Bethsaida section and its implications for gMark is here:
viewtopic.php?t=2554

It's more fun to include highlighted text with it:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2554&p=57819&hilit= ... ida#p57819

[Kunigunde Kreuzerin]

This would need further clarification, anyway. Ben thought that canonical gMark had a predecessor text, mostly because of the duplications, like the whole Bethsaida section. A shorter version of gMark, not gLuke. That gMark predecessor would then, among others, lead to gMarcion and gMark, etc. His synoptic "working" model had a few more steps.

Link? I'm curious to see Ben Smith's presentation of it.

I believe Ben's diagrams were uploaded on his own site and posted here as images only. So it should be lost. But pinning him to that imho would do him an injustice. Ben could study a tiny detail (see Levi, Matthew, & Matthias) and make hypotheses about its development in the texts that ultimately cannot be traced back to a common notion of priority of this or that. He didn't think that once thousands of gospels were floating around. But he did believe in lost texts and extensive textual trajectories that ultimately more or less determined the final form of the canonical gospels.