Kunigunde Kreuzerin wrote: ↑Sat May 20, 2023 11:39 am
StephenGoranson wrote: ↑Sat May 20, 2023 10:33 am
Either of those two texts (Galatians 2:19f and Mark 8:34f) could have been earlier, with or without intertextuality.
You are of course absolutely right. For me, however, it wasn't about priority, it was about beauty. It was only intended as a note for those who share the view of Mark's dependence on Paul.
I'm pondering this conversation about priority.
The participatory "cross" (σταυρός) in Galatians, Hebrews and Mark
Gal 2:19-20,
"the God and Christ" text [vs standard "Son of God"] text.
For through [the] Law I died to [the] Law so that I might live to God.
19ἐγὼ γὰρ διὰ νόμου νόμῳ ἀπέθανον ἵνα Θεῷ ζήσω
20I have been
co-crucified in Christ,
and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.
The [life] I live in [the] flesh, in [the]
faith/faithfulness I live--
that of the God and Christ [the Son of God],
who loved me
and gave Himself up for me.
20Χριστῷ
συνεσταύρωμαι
ζῶ δὲ οὐκέτι ἐγώ ζῇ δὲ ἐν ἐμοὶ Χριστός
ὃ δὲ νῦν ζῶ ἐν σαρκί ἐν
πίστει ζῶ
τῇ
τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ Χριστοῦ [τοῦ Υἱοῦ τοῦ Θεοῦ]
τοῦ ἀγαπήσαντός με
καὶ παραδόντος ἑαυτὸν ὑπὲρ ἐμοῦ
Heb 11:1-12:4
Now faith is [the] assurance of what [we] hope for [and the] certainty of what we do not see.
1Ἔστιν δὲ
πίστις ἐλπιζομένων ὑπόστασις πραγμάτων ἔλεγχος οὐ βλεπομένων
2This is why the ancients were commended.
2ἐν ταύτῃ γὰρ ἐμαρτυρήθησαν οἱ πρεσβύτεροι
3By faith we understand that the universe was formed by God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
3
Πίστει νοοῦμεν κατηρτίσθαι τοὺς αἰῶνας ῥήματι Θεοῦ εἰς τὸ μὴ ἐκ φαινομένων τὸ βλεπόμενον γεγονέναι
4By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain [did]. By [faith] he was commended as righteous [when] God gave approval to his gifts. And by [faith] he still speaks, [even though] he is dead.
4
Πίστει πλείονα θυσίαν Ἅβελ παρὰ Κάϊν προσήνεγκεν τῷ Θεῷ δι’ ἧς ἐμαρτυρήθη εἶναι δίκαιος μαρτυροῦντος ἐπὶ τοῖς δώροις αὐτοῦ τοῦ Θεοῦ καὶ δι’ αὐτῆς ἀποθανὼν ἔτι λαλεῖ
5By faith Enoch was taken up [so that] he did not see death. He could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.
5
Πίστει Ἑνὼχ μετετέθη τοῦ μὴ ἰδεῖν θάνατον καὶ οὐχ ηὑρίσκετο διότι μετέθηκεν αὐτὸν ὁ Θεός πρὸ γὰρ τῆς μεταθέσεως μεμαρτύρηται εὐαρεστηκέναι τῷ Θεῷ
6And without faith [it is] impossible to please [God], because anyone who approaches [Him] must believe that He exists and [that] He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.
6χωρὶς δὲ πίστεως ἀδύνατον εὐαρεστῆσαι πιστεῦσαι γὰρ δεῖ τὸν προσερχόμενον τῷ Θεῷ ὅτι ἔστιν καὶ τοῖς ἐκζητοῦσιν αὐτὸν μισθαποδότης γίνεται
7By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in godly fear built an ark to save his family. By [faith] he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness [that] comes by faith.
7
Πίστει χρηματισθεὶς Νῶε περὶ τῶν μηδέπω βλεπομένων εὐλαβηθεὶς κατεσκεύασεν κιβωτὸν εἰς σωτηρίαν τοῦ οἴκου αὐτοῦ δι’ ἧς κατέκρινεν τὸν κόσμον καὶ τῆς κατὰ πίστιν δικαιοσύνης ἐγένετο κληρονόμος
8By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as [his] inheritance, obeyed and went, without knowing where he was going.
8
Πίστει καλούμενος Ἀβραὰμ ὑπήκουσεν ἐξελθεῖν εἰς τόπον ὃν ἤμελλεν λαμβάνειν εἰς κληρονομίαν καὶ ἐξῆλθεν μὴ ἐπιστάμενος ποῦ ἔρχεται
9By faith he dwelt in the promised land as {a stranger} in a foreign [country]. He lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who [were] heirs with him of the same promise.
9
Πίστει παρῴκησεν εἰς γῆν τῆς ἐπαγγελίας ὡς ἀλλοτρίαν ἐν σκηναῖς κατοικήσας μετὰ Ἰσαὰκ καὶ Ἰακὼβ τῶν συνκληρονόμων τῆς ἐπαγγελίας τῆς αὐτῆς
10For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder [is] God.
10ἐξεδέχετο γὰρ τὴν τοὺς θεμελίους ἔχουσαν πόλιν ἧς τεχνίτης καὶ δημιουργὸς ὁ Θεός
11By faith Sarah, even though she was barren and beyond the opportune age, was enabled to conceive a child, because she considered Him faithful who had promised.
11
Πίστει καὶ αὐτῇ Σάρρᾳ [στεῖρα] δύναμιν εἰς καταβολὴν σπέρματος ἔλαβεν καὶ παρὰ καιρὸν ἡλικίας ἐπεὶ πιστὸν ἡγήσατο τὸν ἐπαγγειλάμενον
12And so from one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.
12διὸ καὶ ἀφ’ ἑνὸς ἐγεννήθησαν καὶ ταῦτα νενεκρωμένου καθὼς τὰ ἄστρα τοῦ οὐρανοῦ τῷ πλήθει καὶ ὡς ἡ ἄμμος ἡ παρὰ τὸ χεῖλος τῆς θαλάσσης ἡ ἀναρίθμητος
13All these [people] died in faith, without having received the things they were promised. However, they saw [them] and welcomed them from afar.
And they acknowledged that they were
strangers and exiles on the earth.
13
Κατὰ πίστιν ἀπέθανον οὗτοι πάντες μὴ κομισάμενοι τὰς ἐπαγγελίας ἀλλὰ πόρρωθεν αὐτὰς ἰδόντες καὶ ἀσπασάμενοι
καὶ ὁμολογήσαντες ὅτι
ξένοι καὶ παρεπίδημοί εἰσιν ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς
Cf.
ξένοι καὶ πάροικοι, Eph 2:9
Cf.
παροίκους καὶ παρεπιδήμους, 1 Peter 2:11
14Now those who say such things show that they are seeking a country of their own.
14οἱ γὰρ τοιαῦτα λέγοντες ἐμφανίζουσιν ὅτι πατρίδα ἐπιζητοῦσιν
15If they had been thinking of [the country] they had left, they would have had opportunity to return.
15καὶ εἰ μὲν ἐκείνης ἐμνημόνευον ἀφ’ ἧς ἐξέβησαν εἶχον ἂν καιρὸν ἀνακάμψαι
16Instead, they were longing for a better [country], a heavenly [one]. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
16νῦν δὲ κρείττονος ὀρέγονται τοῦτ’ ἔστιν ἐπουρανίου διὸ οὐκ ἐπαισχύνεται αὐτοὺς ὁ Θεὸς Θεὸς ἐπικαλεῖσθαι αὐτῶν ἡτοίμασεν γὰρ αὐτοῖς πόλιν
17By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac [ on the altar ]. He who had received the promises was ready to offer [his] one and only son,
17
Πίστει προσενήνοχεν Ἀβραὰμ τὸν Ἰσαὰκ πειραζόμενος καὶ τὸν μονογενῆ προσέφερεν ὁ τὰς ἐπαγγελίας ἀναδεξάμενος
18even though [God] had said to him, “Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned.” 18πρὸς ὃν ἐλαλήθη ὅτι Ἐν Ἰσαὰκ κληθήσεταί σοι σπέρμα
19[Abraham] reasoned that God could raise [the] dead, [and] in a sense, he did receive [Isaac] back from [death].
19λογισάμενος ὅτι καὶ ἐκ νεκρῶν ἐγείρειν δυνατὸς ὁ Θεός ὅθεν αὐτὸν καὶ ἐν παραβολῇ ἐκομίσατο
20By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning the future.
20
Πίστει καὶ περὶ μελλόντων εὐλόγησεν Ἰσαὰκ τὸν Ἰακὼβ καὶ τὸν Ἠσαῦ
21By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of Joseph’s sons and worshiped [as he leaned] on the top of his staff.
21
Πίστει Ἰακὼβ ἀποθνῄσκων ἕκαστον τῶν υἱῶν Ἰωσὴφ εὐλόγησεν καὶ προσεκύνησεν ἐπὶ τὸ ἄκρον τῆς ῥάβδου αὐτοῦ
22By faith Joseph, when his end was near, spoke about the exodus of the Israelites and gave instructions about his bones.
22
Πίστει Ἰωσὴφ τελευτῶν περὶ τῆς ἐξόδου τῶν υἱῶν Ἰσραὴλ ἐμνημόνευσεν καὶ περὶ τῶν ὀστέων αὐτοῦ ἐνετείλατο
23By faith [Moses’] parents hid him for three months after his birth, because they saw [he was] a beautiful child, and they were unafraid of the king’s edict.
23
Πίστει Μωϋσῆς γεννηθεὶς ἐκρύβη τρίμηνον ὑπὸ τῶν πατέρων αὐτοῦ διότι εἶδον ἀστεῖον τὸ παιδίον καὶ οὐκ ἐφοβήθησαν τὸ διάταγμα τοῦ βασιλέως
24By faith Moses, when he was grown, refused to be called [the] son of Pharaoh’s daughter.
24
Πίστει Μωϋσῆς μέγας γενόμενος ἠρνήσατο λέγεσθαι υἱὸς θυγατρὸς Φαραώ
25He chose to suffer oppression with God’s people rather than to experience [the] fleeting enjoyment of sin.
25μᾶλλον ἑλόμενος συνκακουχεῖσθαι τῷ λαῷ τοῦ Θεοῦ ἢ πρόσκαιρον ἔχειν ἁμαρτίας ἀπόλαυσιν
26He valued disgrace for Christ {above} the treasures of Egypt, for he was looking ahead to [his] reward.
26μείζονα πλοῦτον ἡγησάμενος τῶν Αἰγύπτου θησαυρῶν τὸν ὀνειδισμὸν τοῦ Χριστοῦ ἀπέβλεπεν γὰρ εἰς τὴν μισθαποδοσίαν
27By faith [Moses] left Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger; he persevered because he saw [Him who is] invisible.
27
Πίστει κατέλιπεν Αἴγυπτον μὴ φοβηθεὶς τὸν θυμὸν τοῦ βασιλέως τὸν γὰρ ἀόρατον ὡς ὁρῶν ἐκαρτέρησεν
28By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of blood, so that the destroyer [of] the firstborn would not touch [Israel’s own] [ firstborn ].
28
Πίστει πεποίηκεν τὸ πάσχα καὶ τὴν πρόσχυσιν τοῦ αἵματος ἵνα μὴ ὁ ὀλοθρεύων τὰ πρωτότοκα θίγῃ αὐτῶν
29By faith [the people] passed through the Red Sea as on dry land; [but when] the Egyptians tried [to follow], they were drowned. 29
Πίστει διέβησαν τὴν Ἐρυθρὰν Θάλασσαν ὡς διὰ ξηρᾶς γῆς ἧς πεῖραν λαβόντες οἱ Αἰγύπτιοι κατεπόθησαν
30By faith the walls of Jericho fell, after [the people] had marched around them for seven days.
30
Πίστει τὰ τείχη Ἰεριχὼ ἔπεσαν κυκλωθέντα ἐπὶ ἑπτὰ ἡμέρας
31By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies in peace, did not perish with those who were disobedient.
31
Πίστει Ῥαὰβ ἡ πόρνη οὐ συναπώλετο τοῖς ἀπειθήσασιν δεξαμένη τοὺς κατασκόπους μετ’ εἰρήνης
32And what more shall I say? Time will not allow me to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel, and the prophets, 32Καὶ τί ἔτι λέγω ἐπιλείψει με γὰρ διηγούμενον ὁ χρόνος περὶ Γεδεών Βαράκ Σαμψών Ἰεφθάε Δαυίδ τε καὶ Σαμουὴλ καὶ τῶν προφητῶν
33who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, [and] obtained what was promised; [who] shut [the] mouths of lions, 33οἳ
διὰ πίστεως κατηγωνίσαντο βασιλείας εἰργάσαντο* δικαιοσύνην ἐπέτυχον ἐπαγγελιῶν ἔφραξαν στόματα λεόντων
34quenched [the] raging fire, [and] escaped [the] edge of [the] sword; [who] gained strength from weakness, became mighty in battle, [and] put foreign armies [to flight].
34ἔσβεσαν δύναμιν πυρός ἔφυγον στόματα μαχαίρης ἐδυναμώθησαν ἀπὸ ἀσθενείας ἐγενήθησαν ἰσχυροὶ ἐν πολέμῳ παρεμβολὰς ἔκλιναν ἀλλοτρίων
35Women received back their dead, raised to life again. Others were tortured [and] refused [their] release, so that they might gain a better resurrection. 35Ἔλαβον γυναῖκες ἐξ ἀναστάσεως τοὺς νεκροὺς αὐτῶν ἄλλοι δὲ ἐτυμπανίσθησαν οὐ προσδεξάμενοι τὴν ἀπολύτρωσιν ἵνα κρείττονος ἀναστάσεως τύχωσιν
36[Still] others endured mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment.
36ἕτεροι δὲ ἐμπαιγμῶν καὶ μαστίγων πεῖραν ἔλαβον ἔτι δὲ δεσμῶν καὶ φυλακῆς
37They were stoned, they were sawed in two, they were put to death by [the] sword. They went around in sheepskins [and] goatskins, destitute, oppressed, [and] mistreated.
37Ἐλιθάσθησαν 〈ἐπειράσθησαν〉 ἐπρίσθησαν ἐν φόνῳ μαχαίρης ἀπέθανον περιῆλθον ἐν μηλωταῖς ἐν αἰγείοις δέρμασιν ὑστερούμενοι θλιβόμενοι κακουχούμενοι
38The world was not worthy of [them]. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and [ hid in ] caves and holes in the ground.
38ὧν οὐκ ἦν ἄξιος ὁ κόσμος ἐπὶ ἐρημίαις πλανώμενοι καὶ ὄρεσιν καὶ σπηλαίοις καὶ ταῖς ὀπαῖς τῆς γῆς
39These {were} all commended for [their] faith, [yet] they did not receive what [was] promised.
39Καὶ οὗτοι πάντες μαρτυρηθέντες
διὰ τῆς πίστεως οὐκ ἐκομίσαντο τὴν ἐπαγγελίαν
40God had planned something better for us, so that together with us they would be made perfect.
40τοῦ Θεοῦ περὶ ἡμῶν κρεῖττόν τι προβλεψαμένου ἵνα μὴ χωρὶς ἡμῶν τελειωθῶσιν
1Therefore, [since] we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off every encumbrance and the sin [that] so easily entangles, [and] let us run with endurance the race set out for us.
1Τοιγαροῦν καὶ ἡμεῖς τοσοῦτον ἔχοντες περικείμενον ἡμῖν νέφος μαρτύρων ὄγκον ἀποθέμενοι πάντα καὶ τὴν εὐπερίστατον ἁμαρτίαν δι’ ὑπομονῆς τρέχωμεν τὸν προκείμενον ἡμῖν ἀγῶνα
2Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of
[our] faith,
who for the joy set before Him endured [the] cross, scorning [its] shame, and sat down at [the] right hand of the throne of God.
2ἀφορῶντες εἰς τὸν
τῆς πίστεως ἀρχηγὸν καὶ τελειωτὴν Ἰησοῦν
ὃς ἀντὶ τῆς προκειμένης αὐτῷ χαρᾶς ὑπέμεινεν
σταυρὸν αἰσχύνης καταφρονήσας ἐν δεξιᾷ τε τοῦ θρόνου τοῦ Θεοῦ κεκάθικεν
3Consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners, so that you will not grow weary [and] lose heart.
3ἀναλογίσασθε γὰρ τὸν τοιαύτην ὑπομεμενηκότα ὑπὸ τῶν ἁμαρτωλῶν εἰς ἑαυτὸν ἀντιλογίαν ἵνα μὴ κάμητε ταῖς ψυχαῖς ὑμῶν ἐκλυόμενοι
4In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.
4Οὔπω μέχρις αἵματος ἀντικατέστητε πρὸς τὴν ἁμαρτίαν ἀνταγωνιζόμενοι
Mark 8:34-35
Then [Jesus] called the crowd {to Him} along with His disciples, [and] He told them,
“If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself
and take up his cross and follow Me.
34Καὶ προσκαλεσάμενος τὸν ὄχλον σὺν τοῖς μαθηταῖς αὐτοῦ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς
Εἴ τις θέλει ὀπίσω μου ἐλθεῖν ἀπαρνησάσθω ἑαυτὸν
καὶ ἀράτω
τὸν σταυρὸν αὐτοῦ καὶ ἀκολουθείτω μοι
35For whoever wants to save his life will lose it,
but whoever loses his life for My sake
and for the gospel will save it.
35ὃς γὰρ ἐὰν θέλῃ τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ σῶσαι ἀπολέσει αὐτήν
ὃς δ’ ἂν ἀπολέσει τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ ἕνεκεν ἐμοῦ
καὶ τοῦ εὐαγγελίου σώσει αὐτήν