The Demiurge or Evil Creator God in the Evangelion
The Demiurge or Evil Creator God in the Evangelion
Are there texts in any of the major recent reconstructions of the Evangelion (BeDuhn, Roth, Klinghardt) that clearly distinguish the Father to whom Jesus refers from the God of Israel of the Hebrew Bible/Jewish Scriptures/Old Testament, or distinguish Jesus' Father from the creator of the material world?
If so, what are they?
Thanks,
Ken
If so, what are they?
Thanks,
Ken
Re: The Demiurge or Evil Creator God in the Evangelion
I quote one from a mythicist (prof Prosper Alfaric) who argued for Mark preceding the Evangelion and the latter preceding Luke and Matthew:
the parable of the two trees.
*Ev 6:43-45
The "bad tree" is, sic et simpliciter: YHWH.
the parable of the two trees.
*Ev 6:43-45
...and neither that a bad tree bears good fruit.
The "bad tree" is, sic et simpliciter: YHWH.
Re: The Demiurge or Evil Creator God in the Evangelion
Another reference to the evil demiurge in *Ev:
(*12:4-5)
"Him" is, sic et simpliciter: YHWH.
But to you, my friends, I say: Do not fear those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul and also have nothing they can do beyond that. But I show you whom you shall fear: him who has the authority after death to cast into hell. Indeed, I say: Him you shall fear!
(*12:4-5)
"Him" is, sic et simpliciter: YHWH.
Re: The Demiurge or Evil Creator God in the Evangelion
Evidence that Marcion distinguished between the evil demiurge and Satan himself:
(*Ev 12:58-59)
The "judge" is, sic et simpliciter: YHWH.
The "bailiff" is Satan.
For when you go with your adversary to court, make an effort while still on the way to be released from him; else, he sues you before the judge, and the judge hands you over to the bailiff, and the bailiff throws you in prison. I say to you: You will never get out from there until you have paid even the last quadrans.
(*Ev 12:58-59)
The "judge" is, sic et simpliciter: YHWH.
The "bailiff" is Satan.
Re: The Demiurge or Evil Creator God in the Evangelion
Another reference to the demiurge in the Evangelion:
(*Ev 16:13)
Note that Paul Verhoeven, the author of this book:
...does an interesting exegesis of the Parable of the Dishonest Manager (*Ev 16:1-13), I invite you all to read it.
In his view, the "rich man" is the demiurge: YHWH.
No slave can serve two masters. For he will either hate the one and love the other or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and the mammon.
(*Ev 16:13)
Note that Paul Verhoeven, the author of this book:
...does an interesting exegesis of the Parable of the Dishonest Manager (*Ev 16:1-13), I invite you all to read it.
In his view, the "rich man" is the demiurge: YHWH.
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Re: The Demiurge or Evil Creator God in the Evangelion
The conversion of the demiurge is allegorized by the confession of the centurion before the crucified one.
Archeological evidence that the centurion is allegory of the demiurge:
(quoted from April DeConick, The Gnostic New Age, p. 92, my bold)
Archeological evidence that the centurion is allegory of the demiurge:
From carvings on Gnostic gems ike the Ophian gem pictured in chapter 7 and descriptions of the gods in their literature, we know that Gnostics imagined the dark lords of the heavens as brutal monsters, animal-human hybrids dressed in Roman military uniforms. Most often the monsters had the heads of ferocious lions or hissing asps. They carried the sceptres of kings in their hands, and sometimes even displayed the heads of theis slain enemeies to terrorize their sujects.
There is a revolutionary edge to the Gnostic vision of the gods, one with political implications. Traditionally, kings and emperors were representatives of the gods, tasked with maintaining cosmic and civil order. When Gnostics characterize the traditional gods as demonic monsters in Roman military uniform, they are implying that their political leaders, the Roman power brokers, are demonic too. In Gnostic thought, the royals and their officials are the bad guys, terrorizing the rest of us, lying to us, and keeping us in servitude in the interests of their demonic overlords.
There is a revolutionary edge to the Gnostic vision of the gods, one with political implications. Traditionally, kings and emperors were representatives of the gods, tasked with maintaining cosmic and civil order. When Gnostics characterize the traditional gods as demonic monsters in Roman military uniform, they are implying that their political leaders, the Roman power brokers, are demonic too. In Gnostic thought, the royals and their officials are the bad guys, terrorizing the rest of us, lying to us, and keeping us in servitude in the interests of their demonic overlords.
(quoted from April DeConick, The Gnostic New Age, p. 92, my bold)
Re: The Demiurge or Evil Creator God in the Evangelion
so you are forced to imagine a Marcion who, while reading about the Gospel episodes where a "judge" occurs, says: "he is surely allegory for the Good God" (sic).Kunigunde Kreuzerin wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 9:24 am .
I suspect that Ken has something else in mind
Really? Do you at least concede that for Marcion the 'judge' is, everywhere he is mentioned in the Evangelion, allegory of the demiurge?
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Re: The Demiurge or Evil Creator God in the Evangelion
Not the Evangelion per se but I saw Lamsa make this argument in one of his books on the Bible.
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Re: The Demiurge or Evil Creator God in the Evangelion
Also it's implicit in the commentaries on the Marcionite interpretation of Mark 10:18