What "Expertise" Can a Scholar of Marcionism Actually Have?

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Secret Alias
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What "Expertise" Can a Scholar of Marcionism Actually Have?

Post by Secret Alias »

It's like having a degree in Klingon culture or the Romulan language. It's at best unknowable and at worst all made up. "Marcionite archaeology" can fill up like a sentence. "Marcionite history" is indistinguishable from a Star Wars plot. "Marcionite literature" is whatever their enemies say it is. It's Luke right? A falsified version of Luke. "Famous Marcionites." What? There's about 6 or 7 people? Not even enough for a football team. You should only be able to teach a course on Marcionism in about an hour but these blowhards are trained to milk the fuck out of anything. How did Lieu manage to write a whole book after Harnack and the rest of these blobs is only testament for amazing ability of academics for bavardage and wasting time on jusr about anything. Ever meet a girl who acts like she could fall in love with anyone? That's the prerequisite of scholars of Marcionism. They'll put up with anything. Even having nothing to work with.
Secret Alias
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Re: What "Expertise" Can a Scholar of Marcionism Actually Have?

Post by Secret Alias »

The reality of Marcionism is whatever the Church Fathers say it is ... and that's all that it is. It would be like if you're THAT Jew who fits all the stereotypes of an anti-Semites wet dream. Or THAT Black guy. Or the Indian guy who actually sounds like Abu from the Simpsons. These people don't exist neither does Marcionism.
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maryhelena
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Re: What "Expertise" Can a Scholar of Marcionism Actually Have?

Post by maryhelena »

A quote from a long ago exchange with Stephan on FRDB.

Quote: Stephan Huller thread: Why Sebastian Moll's Marcionite Scholarship is Dishonest

Marcion Was a Heretic Invented in the Third Century to Gloss Over the Controversies Associated with St Mark in Second Century Palestine

The bottom line for me, my friends, is that we can be fairly certain that Justin never wrote an Against Marcion, nor did Irenaeus - despite what the testimony of the present edition of Against Heresies has to say about that. Noe we have Jerome admitting that a great many spurious texts were written in the name of Modestus, thus cast doubt on the 'Against Marcion' associated with the writer. Why is it so unlikely given the forgery, manipulating and editing associated with the Against Heresies tradition that a third century editor was trying to prove that a great number of third century witnesses knew about the existence of a fictitious 'Marcion' the head of the Marcionites?

http://stephanhuller.blogspot.com/20...-in-third.html


maryhelena:

And that fringe position requires: Ditch Marcion, substitute Marcus Julius Agrippa (II) as the head of the Marcionities - place the Marcionites, with Agrippa (II), prior to the fall of Jerusalem in 70 c.e. - which requires ditching the conventional dating for Marcion of 85 c.e. - 160 c.e. - which all means that the Marcionite theology needs to be cleaned up re their theory of a good god and an evil god......which means that the new scholarly study on Marcion needs to be discredited....In other words; debating Stephan Huller on Marcion is debating with someone already committed to a published fringe theory - thus someone finding it necessary to attack and trash the Marcionite scholarship of Sebastian Moll.

Yes, of course any scholarly work can be questioned - but when the debate lowers itself to the sort of unscholarly accusations of “dishonest” Marcionite scholarship - then objectivity and rationality have fled the debate.

oh well, seems nothing has changed re bashing Marcionite scholarship. Only Stephan knows the true Marcionite story.....
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mlinssen
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Re: What "Expertise" Can a Scholar of Marcionism Actually Have?

Post by mlinssen »

Do yourself and everyone else a favour, and stop posting for a while.
Or rather, you can write them but not Submit them, alright?

Just put them in draft, let them simmer for a day, then read them again.
And ask yourself what impressions they give to the outside world. I for one see the evolution of a loudmouth into a madman, someone going slowly insane

Bilby put you right where you belong - I would reread his response a couple of times and let that sink in. An enormous quantity of material issues from your mouth and pen, Hueller, but the quality of it is minimal - and a fair quantity of quality gets directed to you but you discard it, ignore it or ridicule it, or all of the above.
That is a tactic that works with bullies and demagogues, not normal human beings
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maryhelena
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Re: What "Expertise" Can a Scholar of Marcionism Actually Have?

Post by maryhelena »

Just for interest - a reply from Sebastian Moll that I posted on Stephan Huller's FRDB thread on Moll's book.

Dear Mary (if I may),

thank you for bringing this to my attention. Your fellow poster is right about one thing: I am German and as it happens, today is German Unity Day, so all the more reason to feel good about it ;-)

However, if I responded to every blogger who is disagreeing with my scholarly work, I wouldn't get any of that work done anymore. I'm always shocked about the arrogance of those people. They read one patristic source and believe they know everything about the ancient church. If he had read chapter III of my book, he would have realised that Origen represents a later stage in the development of Marcionite theology.

Anyway, I'm glad that you are so interested in my work and wish you all the best!

Sebastian
(You may quote me on FRDB if you like)

davidmartin
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Re: What "Expertise" Can a Scholar of Marcionism Actually Have?

Post by davidmartin »

So what is Marcionism then if it isn't nothing?

One man's slop is another man's gravy?

Turn that frustration into something productive with patented wild goose theories
Such as... Marcionism was merely a wing of early orthodoxy that rejected too much of Judaism

It doesn't matter whether Marcion existed or he was some poor schmuck that stuck his neck out if they lumped into their new found category all they found unpleasant in their own backyard
StephenGoranson
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Re: What "Expertise" Can a Scholar of Marcionism Actually Have?

Post by StephenGoranson »

mlinssen wrote above, in part, apparently addressing SA:
"Do yourself and everyone else a favour, and stop posting for a while.
Or rather, you can write them but not Submit them, alright?

Just put them in draft, let them simmer for a day, then read them again.
And ask yourself what impressions they give to the outside world. I for one see the evolution of a loudmouth into a madman, someone going slowly insane...."

Pot calling kettle black?

Maybe all here have potential for writing something helpful, and some of us, including me, have made errors (later usually corrected), but may I suggest that it may not be helpful to be offered a choice between:

a) posts from one whose posts sometimes seem to be from a spoiled child
and
b) posts from one whose posts sometimes seem to be from a sufferer of delusions of grandeur?
Secret Alias
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Re: What "Expertise" Can a Scholar of Marcionism Actually Have?

Post by Secret Alias »

mlinssen

What would math be if you couldn't check your results? Theology.
Secret Alias
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Re: What "Expertise" Can a Scholar of Marcionism Actually Have?

Post by Secret Alias »

To Mary

The thread asks how can one have or prove expertise without have corroborative evidence to check that expertise. Yes it is true that the writings of the Church Fathers exist. One can have authority in the field of Patristics. But is it a straight line from "what the Church Fathers said about Marcion and Marcionism" to "what Marcionism actually is"? If so then why do the testimonies of the Church Fathers disagree?

Most of the testimonies about Marcion and Marcionism focus on textual criticism. Why is that? Is it because the Marcionites were virtually indistinguishable from "regular" Christians?
Secret Alias
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Re: What "Expertise" Can a Scholar of Marcionism Actually Have?

Post by Secret Alias »

So what is Marcionism then if it isn't nothing?
The thread is about checking the expertise of something. If I claim that gravity produces a certain force on objects on the earth that is a measurable thesis. If I claim to have expertise over a group that left no evidence save for a door sign surely questions of authority are raised. How do we know we are right about Marcionism when we can't measure that authority?
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