GakuseiDon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 8:30 pm
I think it is a mistake to confuse "a Messiah figure" with "the Messiah". I think that Jews and some Christians believed that God might appoint anyone who is useful or good for His purpose. Cyrus the Great was one. Another was Alexander the Great, as per Josephus' Antiquities, 8.5:
... for Alexander, when he saw the multitude at a distance, in white garments, while the priests stood clothed with fine linen, and the high priest in purple and scarlet clothing, with his mitre on his head, having the golden plate whereon the name of God was engraved, he approached by himself, and adored that name, and first saluted the high priest. The Jews also did all together, with one voice, salute Alexander, and encompass him about...
...And when he went up into the temple, he offered sacrifice to God, according to the high priest's direction, and magnificently treated both the high priest and the priests. And when the Book of Daniel was showed him (23) wherein Daniel declared that one of the Greeks should destroy the empire of the Persians, he supposed that himself was the person intended. And as he was then glad, he dismissed the multitude for the present; but the next day he called them to him, and bid them ask what favors they pleased of him; whereupon the high priest desired that they might enjoy the laws of their forefathers, and might pay no tribute on the seventh year. He granted all they desired. And when they entreared him that he would permit the Jews in Babylon and Media to enjoy their own laws also, he willingly promised to do hereafter what they desired...
I speculate that Josephus was trying to convince Vespasian and Titus that they also were the topics of Jewish prophecy so that he might obtain favors from them. So Vespasian wasn't
the (Davidic) Messiah, but, like Alexander the Great, he was prophecised.
Good point re interpreting/applying Daniel to Alexander. It seems that an anointed figure, a messiah figure, was a flexible idea that could be used, and reused, to fit any situation deemed relevant.
It's interesting to consider what Josephus has done re Agrippa I.
Genesis 41: 41-46
So Pharaoh said to Joseph, ‘I hereby put you in charge of the whole land of Egypt.” Then pharaoh took his signet ring from his finger and put it on Joseph’s finger. He dressed him in robes of fine linen and put a gold chain around his neck……Joseph was 30 years old when he entered the service of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Antiquities book 18 ch.6
“I think it fit to declare to thee the prediction of the gods. It cannot be that thou shouldst long continue in these bonds; but thou wilt soon be delivered from them, and wilt be promoted to the highest dignity and power, and thou wilt be envied by all……”
“However, there did not many days pass ere he sent for him to his house, and had him shaved, and made him change his raiment; after which he put a diadem upon his head, and appointed him to be king of the tetrarchy of Philip. He also gave him the tetrarchy of Lysanias, and changed his iron chain for a golden one of equal weight.”
Daniel 9: 25
..to restore and rebuild Jerusalem….
Antiquities book 19 ch.7
“As for the walls of Jerusalem, that were adjoining to the new city [Bezetha], he repaired them at the expense of the public, and built them wider in breadth, and higher in altitude; and he had made them too strong for all human power to demolish,
Numbers 24:17
I behold him, but not near;
A star shall come forth from Jacob,
A sceptre shall rise from Israel,
Antiquities book 19 ch.8
…”he put on a garment made wholly of silver, and of a contexture truly wonderful, and came into the theatre early in the morning; at which time the silver of his garment being illuminated by the fresh reflection of the sun’s rays upon it, shone out after a surprising manner, and was so resplendent as to spread a horror over those that looked intently upon him; and presently his flatterers cried out, one from one place, and another from another, (though not for his good,) that he was a god; and they added, “Be thou merciful to us; for although we have hitherto reverenced thee only as a man, yet shall we henceforth own thee as superior to mortal nature”.
Agrippa I died around 44/45 ce (re Josephus dating - although Tacitus indicates Agrippa I died around 49 c.e.)Interestingly, 44/45 ce is around 490 years from the 20th year of Artaxerxes in 446/445 bc – the year in which Nehemiah goes to Jerusalem to rebuild it’s walls….Nehemiah 1:1-3, 2:1).
Not forgetting that, re Josephus, Agrippa was made King in 37 c.e. A King with Hasmonean ancestry. 100 years since the events of 63 b.c.
Josephus also finds relevance in 63 c.e. - that year being 100 years from 37 b.c. In 63 c.e. Josephus places Jesus ben Ananias (7 year prior to the fall of Jerusalem) He also places the James passage around the same time.
If Josephus was using a 100 year time frame in which to place his Hasmonean/Jewish history - did he do the same with Roman history i.e. his prediction regarding Vespasian ?
Vespasian became Roman Emperor in 69 c.e. - that is 100 years from the Battle of Actium in 31 b.c. Josephus gave his Vespasian prediction following the fall of Jotapata in 67 c.e. In other words - in the middle of the 7 year period from 63 c.e.
Battle of Actium
The Battle of Actium was a naval battle fought between Octavian's maritime fleet, led by Marcus Agrippa, and the combined fleets of both Mark Antony and Cleopatra VII Philopator. The battle took place on 2 September 31 BC in the Ionian Sea, near the former Roman colony of Actium, Greece,....
Octavian's victory enabled him to consolidate his power over Rome and its dominions. He adopted the title of Princeps ("first citizen"), and in 27 BC was awarded the title of Augustus ("revered") by the Roman Senate. This became the name by which he was known in later times. As Augustus, he retained the trappings of a restored Republican leader, but historians generally view his consolidation of power and the adoption of these honorifics as the end of the Roman Republic and the beginning of the Roman Empire.[7]
Whatever the '
ambiguous oracle' Josephus had in mind, whether specific or a composite of ideas, he also needed an element of timing in which to apply it. The historical event that seems to have played a part in his applying the
ambiguous oracle to Vespasian might well have been his own experience at Jotapata - combined with a long view of history.....
Agrippa I, re Josephus and Philo, was made a new King, a king with Hasmonean ancestry, by Gaius in 37 c.e. (100 years after Roman rule in Judaea in 63 b.c.)
Vespasian, re Roman history, was made the new Emperor in 69 c.e. (100 years after the Battle of Actium in 31 b.c.)