Sabar's New Morton Smith Article

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Secret Alias
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Re: Sabar's New Morton Smith Article

Post by Secret Alias »

The other "naked with naked" reference. Gregory knows Secret Mark?
Ἡμᾶς μὲν οὕτω παραμυθήσῃ· τὴν ποίμνην δὲ πῶς; Πρῶτον μὲν τὴν σὴν ὑποσχόμενος ἐπιστα σίαν καὶ ἡγεμονίαν, οὗ πᾶσι καλὸν ὑπὸ τὰς πτέ ρυγας ἀναπαύεσθαι, καὶ οὗ διψῶμεν τῆς φωνῆς μᾶλλον, ἢ πηγῆς τῆς καθαρωτάτης οἱ δίψει κάμνον τες. ∆εύτερον δὲ πείσας, ὡς οὐδὲ νῦν ἡμᾶς ἀπολέ λοιπεν ὁ Ποιμὴν ὁ καλὸς, ὁ τιθεὶς τὴν ψυχὴν ὑπὲρ τῶν προβάτων· ἀλλὰ καὶ πάρεστι, καὶ ποιμαίνει, καὶ ὁδηγεῖ, καὶ γινώσκει τὰ ἴδια, καὶ γινώσκεται ὑπὸ τῶν ἰδίων· σωματικῶς μὲν οὐχ ὁρώμενος, πνευματικῶς δὲ συγγινόμενος, καὶ προπολεμῶν τῆς ποίμνης κατὰ τῶν λύκων, καὶ οὐδενὶ συγχωρῶν διὰ τῆς αὐλῆς ὑπερβαίνοντι λῃστρικῶς τε καὶ ἐπιβούλως, ξένῃ φωνῇ κατασύρειν καὶ διακλέπτειν ψυχὰς τῇ ἀληθείᾳ καλῶς ἠγμένας. Πείθομαι δ', ὅτι καὶ τῇ πρεσβείᾳ νῦν μᾶλλον, ἢ πρότερον τῇ διδασκαλίᾳ, ὅσῳ καὶ μᾶλλον ἐγγίζει Θεῷ, τὰς σωματικὰς πέδας ἀποσεισάμενος, καὶ τῆς ἐπιθολούσης τὸν νοῦν ἰλύος ἀπηλλαγμένος, καὶ γυμνῷ γυμνὸς ἐντυγχάνων τῷ πρώτῳ καὶ καθαρωτάτῳ νοῒ, τάξεως καὶ παῤῥη σίας ἀγγελικῆς, εἰ μὴ τολμηρὸν τοῦτο εἰπεῖν, ἀξιού μενος, Ταῦτα μὲν οὖν αὐτὸς διαθήσεις καὶ φιλο σοφήσεις ἄμεινον ἢ ὡς ἂν αὐτὸς παραδείξαιμι, καὶ λόγου δυνάμει καὶ πνεύματος. Ἵνα δὲ μὴ δι' ἄγνοιαν τῶν ἐκείνου καλῶν παραπολὺ τῆς ἀξίας ὁ λόγος ἐλαττωθῇ, βραχέα τῆς εὐφημίας, ἐξ ὧν αὐτὸς συν επίσταμαι τῷ ἀπελθόντι, σκιαγραφήσω, καὶ προχαράξω, καὶ παραδώσω σοι, τῷ καλῷ τῶν τοιού των γραφεῖ, τῆς ἀρετῆς τῆς ἐκείνου τὸ κάλλος ἀπ ακριβῶσαι, καὶ παραδοῦναι ταῖς πάντων ἀκοαῖς τε καὶ διανοίαις.

You will comfort us in this way; but how the flock? First, taking upon yourself the oversight and leadership, where it is beautiful for all to rest under your wings, and where we thirst more for your voice than for the purest spring, those who are exhausted by thirst. Secondly, persuading us that even now the Good Shepherd has not abandoned us, who lays down his life for the sheep; but he is present, and he shepherds, and he guides, and he knows his own, and he is known by them; not seen bodily, but perceived spiritually, and he wages war for the flock against the wolves, and he does not allow anyone, with insidious and treacherous intent, to pass beyond the fold, dragging away and stealing souls that are well disposed to truth. I am persuaded that now, more than before, by his mediation rather than by his teaching, as he draws closer to God, having cast off bodily constraints, and having freed the mind from the fog of delusion, and being naked, he approaches naked to the first and purest understanding, the order and boldness of angelic message, though it would be daring to say so, deserving to say, 'Therefore, you yourself will arrange and impart these things better than I could show, by the power of speech and spirit. So that the discourse, due to ignorance of those noble things, does not diminish far from its worth, I will sketch out briefly, from what I myself know from his departure, and I will outline, and I will deliver to you, in a beautiful style of such writings, to define the beauty of his virtue accurately, and to present it to the hearing and understanding of all.
καὶ γυμνῷ γυμνὸς ἐντυγχάνων
ἐντυγχάνω • (entunkhánō)

I meet, I fall in with, I stumble across
(of thunder) I strike
I discuss, I talk to
I appeal to, I entreat
I have sexual intercourse with
(of books) I meet with, I light upon, I read
The phrase "καὶ γυμνῷ γυμνὸς ἐντυγχάνων" translates to "and being naked, he encounters the naked" in a neutral context. However, in a sexual connotation, it could be rendered as "and nakedly engaging with the naked," "nakedly fucking the naked."

I don't get this conspiracy theory. I don't. I don't. Morton Smith isn't Satan. He doesn't have the power to create a reality where everywhere he looks there is confirmation of his "theories." I accept Tselikas's expertise. But clearly if you don't the way is just as treacherous. Led Zeppelin used to have a song, How Many More Times. Take a guess who uses the verb in the sexual sense:
Entychites a sect of the followers of Simon, who, according to Clemens Alex. (Stromata vii, 17; page 900), derived this name from their promiscuous (ἐντυγχάνω,) sexual intercourse at the night meetings. Others write the name Eutychites or Euchites. https://www.biblicalcyclopedia.com/E/entychites.html
Secret Alias
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Re: Sabar's New Morton Smith Article

Post by Secret Alias »

Anthologia Palatina 10.58 = Palladas of Alexandria (4th cent. CE?)

Naked came I forth upon the Earth,
And naked shall I go away beneath it.
Why, then, do I keep toiling to no purpose,
Seeing that the end of all is nakedness?

Γῆς ἐπέβην γυμνὸς γυμνός θ’ ὑπὸ γαῖαν ἄπειμι·
καὶ τί μάτην μοχθῶ γυμνὸν ὁρῶν τὸ τέλος;
Secret Alias
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Re: Sabar's New Morton Smith Article

Post by Secret Alias »

This certainly seems to be a Secret Mark reference in the Stromata 4.18.117.2 - 3
This glory, which Shone forth on the face of Moses, the people could not look on. Wherefore he took a veil for the glory, to those who looked carnally. For those, who demand toll, detain those who bring in any worldly things, who are burdened with their own passions. But him that is naked which are subject to duty, and is full of knowledge, and of the righteousness of works, they pass on with their good wishes, blessing the man with his work.

ταύτην τὴν δόξαν τὴν ἐκλάμψασαν ἐπὶ τοῦ προσώπου Μωυσέως ὁ λαὸς οὐχ οἷός τε ἦν προσβλέπειν, διὸ καὶ κάλυμμα ἐλάμβανε τῆς δόξης πρὸς τοὺς σαρκικῶς θεωμένους. τοὺς μὲν γὰρ ἐπαγομένους τινὰ τῶν κοσμικῶνκατέχουσιν οἱ τὸ τέλος ἀπαιτοῦντες τοῖς σφετέροις βαρουμένους πάθεσι, τὸν δὲ γυμνὸν μὲν τῶν ὑποπιπτόντων τῷ τέλει, πλήρη δὲ γνώσεως καὶ τῆς ἐξ ἔργων δικαιοσύνης συνευχόμενοι παραπέμπουσι, τὸν ἄνδρα σὺν καὶ τῷ ἔργῳ μακαρίσαντες.
The idea here is clearly rooted in a mystery ritual involving nudity known to Clement as Eirini Afentoulidou has recognized:
The Gnostic terminology of gatekeepers and passport/password is used in one of the earliest patristic mentions of tollkeepers, the Stromateis (literally “patchwork”) written by Clement of Alexandria around the year 200 CE:
[The pure in heart] exhibits as a sacred symbol (σύμβολον) the bright impress (χαρακτήρ) of righteousness to the angels that wait on the ascension […]. For those, who demand toll (τέλος), detain those who bring in any worldly things, who are burdened with their own passions. But him that is free of all things which are subject to duty, and is full of knowledge (πλήρη γνώσεως), and of the righteousness of works, they pass on with their good wishes, blessing the man with his work.
As in the Ascensio Isaiae, the gatekeepers are angels. God is completely absent, but the fact that the angels are benign to the righteous implies that they are in God’s service. The Gnostic discourse permeates the text: the virtue that humans practice is compared to a permit, and the virtuous is “full of knowledge”. However, the biblical discourse of righteousness of works puts the privileged, esoteric character of the “passport” into perspective. https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f8dc/7 ... 117153.pdf
I have argued over and over again that Irenaeus's "followers of Mark" are clearly the Markan tradition of Clement's Alexandria. This is confirmed yet again as Irenaeus repeatedly mentions (without referencing ritual nudity) how these Christians seek to ascend past the heavenly watchers knowing what to say to each of them. Clearly Secret Mark is the gospel context of these ideas in Clement of Alexandria's writings.
andrewcriddle
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Re: Sabar's New Morton Smith Article

Post by andrewcriddle »

I agree that 'Clement' does not expressly claim that the text of the Carpocratian version of Secret Mark was explicitly sexual. However it seems clear that that is how the Carpocratians are represented as interpreting it.

Andrew Criddle
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