Book 6.5.3 of Wars of the Jews.

[Joseph D. L.]

https://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-6.html

In discussing the leadup to the the destruction of Jerusalem, Josephus mentions a series of signs that foretold this horrible event.

They were 1. a star in the shape of a sword appearing in the sky, 2. a comet which was visible for a whole year, 3. During the feast of unleavened bread a great light appearing atop the alter, and a heifer giving birth to a lamb "in the midst of the Temple", 4. the eastern gate, which was firmly shut and unmovable lest with the strength of twenty men opened on its own accord, 5. a miracle of chariots and soldiers running about in the sky, and 6. an earthquake and a terrible noise was heard. All of this culminates to the final vestige of signs, as a man Jesus ben Ananias appears proclaiming the destruction of Jerusalem, the Temple, and finally himself until he is finally smote with a hurled stone while standing on the Temple wall.

Am I crazy to think that this isn't a quick summation of the Jesus cycle? The star in the east; the lamb of God as the light of the world; the shaking and darkness at the crucifixion; the declaration that the Temple will be destroyed; and the resurrection with the gate opening?

I am not saying that Josephus is a witness to Jesus, but that he is recounting oral traditions that may have influenced early Christianity.

Thoughts?

[JarekS]

Perfect shot

[JarekS]

This is what is so delightful about human creativity. Something that was created for a different purpose for a different audience became the basis of a mass religion. Bill Gates did not invent Windows and DOS, but he saw their future. Zuckenberg did not invent social media mechanisms, but he also saw their future. You just have to look around and have intuition.

[MrMacSon]

I am not saying that Josephus is a witness to Jesus, but that he is recounting oral traditions that may have influenced early Christianity.

I presume you mean:
"[Therein] Josephus is recounting events that may have influenced early Christian thinking and narrative development"

(I'm not sure why you think "oral "traditions"" would have been in play ... but I do think the events outlined are interesting potential antecedents to the outline or foundation of the Christian story)

[Joseph D. L.]

A cow gave birth to a lamb? Huh. I really didn't see that one coming.

Like you I think these little tidbits make up a potential source for early Christianity. Maybe source is the inappropriate word as it infers a kind of difference between the two. Michael Crouch believed that this was just how Josephus understood Christians and their wacky, zany beliefs. Who made who?

[JarekS]

IMHO, Josephus knew nothing about the Christians, although he provided the basis for their creation

[MrMacSon]

A cow gave birth to a lamb? Huh. I really didn't see that one coming.

Like you I think these little tidbits make up a potential source for early Christianity ...
Michael Crouch believed that this was just how Josephus understood Christians and their wacky, zany beliefs. Who made who?

• Perhaps Crouch was unwittingly 'putting the horse after the cart'

[GakuseiDon]

Josephus also implies that God had removed Himself from the Temple. This is consistent with what he wrote about how God had abandoned Jerusalem and the Temple due to the actions of robbers and the High Priests:

At the same festival also, a heifer, as she was led by the high priest to be sacrificed, brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple. Moreover, the eastern gate of the inner [court of the] temple, which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone, was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night. Now those that kept watch in the temple came hereupon running to the captain of the temple, and told him of it; who then came up thither, and not without great difficulty was able to shut the gate again. This also appeared to the vulgar to be a very happy prodigy, as if God did thereby open them the gate of happiness. But the men of learning understood it, that the security of their holy house was dissolved of its own accord, and that the gate was opened for the advantage of their enemies. So these publicly declared that the signal foreshowed the desolation that was coming upon them. Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one and twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared: I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the temple,] as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence." But, what is still more terrible, there was one Jesus, the son of Ananus, a plebeian and a husbandman, who, four years before the war began, and at a time when the city was in very great peace and prosperity, came to that feast whereon it is our custom for every one to make tabernacles to God in the temple, began on a sudden to cry aloud, "A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice against Jerusalem and the holy house, a voice against the bridegrooms and the brides, and a voice against this whole people!"

[allegoria]

A cow gave birth to a lamb? Huh. I really didn't see that one coming.

Lots of early / medieval nativity art show a cow or ox right next to the stable.

[Joseph D. L.]

A cow gave birth to a lamb? Huh. I really didn't see that one coming.

Lots of early / medieval nativity art show a cow or ox right next to the stable.

That's the point where Columbo would go "one more thing." The obvious symbolism of the heifer giving birth to a lamb is what is sealing it for me.