The Prospect of a Christian Interpolation in Tacitus

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Giuseppe
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Re: The Prospect of a Christian Interpolation in Tacitus

Post by Giuseppe »

Kunigunde Kreuzerin wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:02 am
Ken Olson, "A Eusebian Reading of the Testimonium Flavianum"
The point of Ken, it seems to me, is that the Testimonium Flavianum is really a Testimonium Eusebianum, from the POV of his style. But I don't think that Ken denies that the same style can be seen as Josephian. Hence, ceteris paribus, what decides at the end for interpolation is that the next phrase 'after these facts, another disgrace fell on the Jews...' doesn't fit with the TF.

The lesson is that the style can't decide, alone. Other variables are more decisive.
John2
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Re: The Prospect of a Christian Interpolation in Tacitus

Post by John2 »

Ben C. Smith wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:25 pm
rgprice wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:23 pmBut yes, to think that no one, for 300 years, made use of either the fact of this mass persecution or the existence of this passage is quite preposterous.
Is it? How common are references in antiquity to the Annals by anybody, whether Greek or Roman, Jew or Christian?

I came across this old thread and was wondering the same thing myself.
John2
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Re: The Prospect of a Christian Interpolation in Tacitus

Post by John2 »

In a current thread here Drews is cited as saying, "We have a number of instances in the first centuries of Christian writers who are acquainted with Tacitus, such as Tertullian, Jerome, Orosius, Sidonius Apollinaris, Sulpicius Severus, and Cassiodorus. It is only in the course of the Middle Ages that this acquaintance with the Roman historian is gradually lost; and this not on account of, but in spite of, the passage in Tacitus on the Christians."


This seems to answer the question then, at least as far as Christians go (assuming for now that these writers were familiar with the Annals).
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MrMacSon
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Re: The Prospect of a Christian Interpolation in Tacitus

Post by MrMacSon »

John2 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:49 pm ... assuming for now that these writers were familiar with the Annals
I don't think they were. I think they only indicated a familiarity with Tacitus' Histories
John2
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Re: The Prospect of a Christian Interpolation in Tacitus

Post by John2 »

Thanks. Back to square one then, if that is the case.
andrewcriddle
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Re: The Prospect of a Christian Interpolation in Tacitus

Post by andrewcriddle »

MrMacSon wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:23 pm
John2 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:49 pm ... assuming for now that these writers were familiar with the Annals
I don't think they were. I think they only indicated a familiarity with Tacitus' Histories
Sulpicius Severus clearly knew the account in the Annals about Nero's persecution of Christians.
In the meantime, the number of the Christians being now very large, it happened that Rome was destroyed by fire, while Nero was stationed at Antium. But the opinion of all cast the odium of causing the fire upon the emperor, and he was believed in this way to have sought for the glory of building a new city. And in fact, Nero could not by any means he tried escape from the charge that the fire had been caused by his orders. He therefore turned the accusation against the Christians, and the most cruel tortures were accordingly inflicted upon the innocent. Nay, even new kinds of death were invented, so that, being covered in the skins of wild beasts, they perished by being devoured by dogs, while many were crucified or slain by fire, and not a few were set apart for this purpose, that, when the day came to a close, they should be consumed to serve for light during the night. In this way, cruelty first began to be manifested against the Christians.
(Assuming that our text of Tacitus is SS's source and not vice versa. )

Andrew Criddle
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