Vinny's Jesus Agnostic Blog

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
outhouse
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Re: Vinny's Jesus Agnostic Blog

Post by outhouse »

Peter Kirby wrote: When he was raised from the dead, where was he?
Splitting mythological hairs here?


Sheol or hades was part of an evolved Jewish thought. As well as Gehenna or Valley of Hinnom mythology.


Paul thinks Jesus was dead for a wee bit?? maybe 3 days? where do you think Paul thought he stayed? in a Hilton or Marriott ?
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Peter Kirby
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Re: Vinny's Jesus Agnostic Blog

Post by Peter Kirby »

outhouse wrote:
Peter Kirby wrote: When he was raised from the dead, where was he?
Splitting mythological hairs here?


Sheol or hades was part of an evolved Jewish thought. As well as Gehenna or Valley of Hinnom mythology.


Paul thinks Jesus was dead for a wee bit?? maybe 3 days? where do you think Paul thought he stayed? in a Hilton or Marriott ?
Sorry, but I'm out. I can't stomache a braindead 'debate' with your lazy attitude. Complete waste of time. You still have my post above and a lot more to read. I don't need to prove anything for you (and, for that matter, I never claimed that anything here was proven, where this seems to be headed).
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
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MrMacSon
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Re: Vinny's Jesus Agnostic Blog

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neil godfrey wrote: We don't "know" - it is not "a fact" - that the movement began in Palestine from around 33CE after a Passover event there. That is all an interpretation based on one late narrative.
Exactly. The story could have been written later; it seems to be merely asserted that the movement began in Palestine from around 33CE after a Passover event there.
outhouse
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Re: Vinny's Jesus Agnostic Blog

Post by outhouse »

Peter Kirby wrote:
neilgodfrey wrote:Ah, I see that Peter Kirby has already taken up the discussion with you on some of these points. I'll leave it between you and him.
Oh fun. :)

Personally I think these textual battles have been fought enough times on the forums, but there have been so many assertions lately on this board that take for granted that the apparent reading of Paul's letters is so clear (and so clearly historicist) that I felt compelled to provide a basic course in what should already be basic knowledge for anyone who is going to broach the subject, IMO... 90% of this is simply on Doherty's website, free of access and easy to find, and people should already be familiar with the material (again, IMO, without requiring me to duke it out in the flesh with some lazy "oh but I can't see it, ergo it's not there" forum-goer...).
Don't pat yourself on the back to hard chasing down and referencing a failed hypothesis, that only makes half sense if you read it out of context. Its laughable at best. Sorry im not choking down that horse crap.

Its hilarious, the authors wrote in rhetoric and mythology, and allegory and metaphor, much of which the context is not known in full. And you want to literalize certain passages and without Paul spelling it out like he was talking to a forth grader, you want exact quotes. I expected better out of you.

You have to expect most scholars don't choke this horse shit down but you call me lazy, get off your ass and create a replacement hypothesis worth arguing about, cause this one is not worth it.


And thank you for the historicist comment, at least my compass is aimed in the right direction, which is backed with a very natural hypothesis that explains all the evidence, every last bit of it. No mental hurdles to jump.
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MrMacSon
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Re: Vinny's Jesus Agnostic Blog

Post by MrMacSon »

outhouse wrote:
Peter Kirby wrote: To use Doherty's famous phrase, you're reading the Gospels into Paul.
Only if one is severely ignorant to Paul's Christology.

Pauls Jesus lives in heaven yes or no? Yes

Pauls places huge importance on Jesus resurrection, yes or no. Yes.

His main emphasis was on Death, resurrection and his lordship of Jesus.
Hallelujah! Christology is king! The King is dead; long live the King!
outhouse
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Re: Vinny's Jesus Agnostic Blog

Post by outhouse »

MrMacSon wrote:
neil godfrey wrote: We don't "know" - it is not "a fact" - that the movement began in Palestine from around 33CE after a Passover event there. That is all an interpretation based on one late narrative.
Exactly. The story could have been written later; it seems to be merely asserted that the movement began in Palestine from around 33CE after a Passover event there.
Don't get hung up on that date.


I was just trying to get him to answer questions, as he accused me of not answering his.

The story could have been a little later.
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MrMacSon
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Re: Vinny's Jesus Agnostic Blog

Post by MrMacSon »

outhouse wrote: Its hilarious, the authors wrote in rhetoric and mythology, and allegory and metaphor, much of which the context is not known in full.
Yep.

yet you then deny your antecedent
outhouse wrote:And thank you for the historicist comment, at least my compass is aimed in the right direction, which is backed with a very natural hypothesis that explains all the evidence, every last bit of it. No mental hurdles to jump.
"all the evidence" ... bwahahahahahahaha.
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Peter Kirby
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Re: Vinny's Jesus Agnostic Blog

Post by Peter Kirby »

outhouse wrote:No mental hurdles to jump.
Nope, just need a brain to shut off first... then repeat, ad nauseam, 'no replacement hypothesis', 'all the evidence', etc. The way you keep repeating that phrase, it has become more of a mantra for you than anything that has any real meaning. Oh... wait... someone's suggesting a hypothesis. Well it's not a real, replacement hypothesis! No. Not worthy of the name. Must be one of them ill-fitting, non-replacement hypotheses. Good. Now, repeat the mantra. Shut off brain. Bang out short posts to the end of time repeating the same thing over and over, without addressing anything in detail. Because after all you had your epiphany about the passover spreading news about the death of Jesus and now that one singular speculative interpretation you fell in love with rules everything else that you say. Just like every other piker...
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
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MrMacSon
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Re: Vinny's Jesus Agnostic Blog

Post by MrMacSon »

fwiw, attributing high Christology to Paul adds weight to the proposition that the Pauline writings are about a celestial-being (rather than being about a 'historical Jesus').
outhouse
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Re: Vinny's Jesus Agnostic Blog

Post by outhouse »

Peter Kirby wrote:Just like every other piker...
Your the one regurgitating some old failed crap, I already know. Ive been debating with Doherty for years, when he was online. I hope he is alright.

Because after all you had your epiphany about the passover spreading news about the death of Jesus and now that one singular speculative interpretation you fell in love with rules everything else that you say.
Beauty is, and you agree. Most of the real history in all of the NT, doesn't exist in the NT. But when you need it, like a apologist your right there literalizing :cheeky:



Thank you for that well written explanation, I would have liked to have time to digest and study when im done here. Its not about you, Its how to take Carrier down, it wont be rushed. You did not develop it, you plagiarized the argument so I don't respect your insults because I didn't answer a tough question in 5 minutes.

Im not criticizing you, like you are me. Im criticizing Doherty and his hypothesis, don't take it so personally.
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