Unicode Greek Fathers

[DCHindley]

Maybe ficino may know this,

But does anyone know where to find archived copies of the Unicode Greek texts of the Church Fathers produced by the following organization?

Ερευνητικό έργο: ΔΡΟΜΟΙ ΤΗΣ ΠΙΣΤΗΣ – ΨΗΦΙΑΚΗ ΠΑΤΡΟΛΟΓΙΑ.
Χρηματοδότηση: ΚΠ Interreg ΙΙΙΑ (ETΠΑ 75%, Εθν. πόροι 25%).
Εργαστήριο Διαχείρισης Πολιτισμικής Κληρονομιάς, http://www.aegean.gr/culturaltec/chmlab.
Πανεπιστήμιο Αιγαίου, Τμήμα Πολιτισμικής Τεχνολογίας και Επικοινωνίας, © 2006.
Επιτρέπεται η ελεύθερη χρήση του υλικού με αναφορά στην πηγή προέλευσής του.

Google Translate says this all means:

Research project: STREETS OF FAITH - DIGITAL PATROLOGY.
Funding: KP Interreg IIIA (ETPA 75%, Nat. Resources 25%).
Cultural Heritage Management Lab, http://www.aegean.gr/culturaltec/chmlab.
University of the Aegean, Department of Cultural Technology and Communication, © 2006.
Allowed the free use of the material with reference to the source of origin

The web link above is dead as a doornail. However, there was a very large quantity of texts available, and the last line indicates that the organization was making the texts free to use (with attribution). If that was the case in 2006 why are they suddenly so hard to find? I was able to access them perhaps 6 mos ago. The web link has been dead for several years now.

DCH

[ficino]

I tried to find something about this university. Their Mediterranean Studies web page has not been updated for almost 10 years:

http://www.rhodes.aegean.gr/tms/index_eng.htm

I would guess their funding has been cut back, since they are a state university. The person who was putting up the patristic texts may have left. To judge from Wikipedia, they are focusing on educating people for practical jobs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_the_Aegean

So far, the TLG is the place I go to first for unicode greek texts. (That's why I was asking about Cyril's Against Julian, which isn't on the TLG.)

[DCHindley]

I tried to find something about this university. Their Mediterranean Studies web page has not been updated for almost 10 years ... I would guess their funding has been cut back, since they are a state university. The person who was putting up the patristic texts may have left.

To judge from Wikipedia, they are focusing on educating people for practical jobs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_the_Aegean

You mean, classical/patristic studies isn't respectable?

DCH

PS: Must now host relatives for the holiday - one of whom is a JW, which makes it interesting as I respect her beliefs. I call it a "family get-together." My brother & sister keep trying to get her into the "holiday spirit" by wrapping presents in Santa Clause decorated paper, give her a chocolate Easter Bunny, etc. (Those guyzzz!)

[Peter Kirby]

Maybe ficino may know this,

But does anyone know where to find archived copies of the Unicode Greek texts of the Church Fathers produced by the following organization?

Ερευνητικό έργο: ΔΡΟΜΟΙ ΤΗΣ ΠΙΣΤΗΣ – ΨΗΦΙΑΚΗ ΠΑΤΡΟΛΟΓΙΑ.
Χρηματοδότηση: ΚΠ Interreg ΙΙΙΑ (ETΠΑ 75%, Εθν. πόροι 25%).
Εργαστήριο Διαχείρισης Πολιτισμικής Κληρονομιάς, http://www.aegean.gr/culturaltec/chmlab.
Πανεπιστήμιο Αιγαίου, Τμήμα Πολιτισμικής Τεχνολογίας και Επικοινωνίας, © 2006.
Επιτρέπεται η ελεύθερη χρήση του υλικού με αναφορά στην πηγή προέλευσής του.

Google Translate says this all means:

Research project: STREETS OF FAITH - DIGITAL PATROLOGY.
Funding: KP Interreg IIIA (ETPA 75%, Nat. Resources 25%).
Cultural Heritage Management Lab, http://www.aegean.gr/culturaltec/chmlab.
University of the Aegean, Department of Cultural Technology and Communication, © 2006.
Allowed the free use of the material with reference to the source of origin

The web link above is dead as a doornail. However, there was a very large quantity of texts available, and the last line indicates that the organization was making the texts free to use (with attribution). If that was the case in 2006 why are they suddenly so hard to find? I was able to access them perhaps 6 mos ago. The web link has been dead for several years now.

DCH

I tried to find something about this university. Their Mediterranean Studies web page has not been updated for almost 10 years:

http://www.rhodes.aegean.gr/tms/index_eng.htm

I would guess their funding has been cut back, since they are a state university. The person who was putting up the patristic texts may have left. To judge from Wikipedia, they are focusing on educating people for practical jobs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_the_Aegean

So far, the TLG is the place I go to first for unicode greek texts. (That's why I was asking about Cyril's Against Julian, which isn't on the TLG.)

The new link to the Cultural Heritage Management Lab is http://chmlab.ct.aegean.gr/
Some kind of patrologia link is http://patrologia.ct.aegean.gr/
But even all the newer URLs are now 404 - http://www.i-m-patron.gr/i-m-patron-old ... istis.html

The wayback machine can be used to find file names and some PDFs: http://web.archive.org/web/200710110426 ... aegean.gr/

A site for getting "PG" PDFs is here: http://khazarzar.skeptik.net/pgm/PG_Migne/
They appear to have Against Julian: http://khazarzar.skeptik.net/pgm/PG_Mig ... G%2068-77/
This Greek website confirms that they are the same books as the ones released by the Greek university.
http://istologio.org/?p=1010

They also seem to be backed up at this Wordpress blog:
https://greekdownloads.wordpress.com/20 ... -pg-68-77/
Some links on that blog point here: http://anemi.lib.uoc.gr/

[DCHindley]

I'm starting to understand the fuss.

Apparently, the folks at TLG charged that the person who had headed the Aegean University project had not actually transcribed Migne's Patrology, but had blatantly ripped-off their CD ROM. They cited various differences which they attributed to bad data conversion routines.

There are in fact differences between the Aegean text and the TLG text, such as treating some words as compound instead of multiple words, or vice versa, but that was because TLG was superior and that the Aegean text was clearly (of course) inferior.

I am not so sure that "blatant rip-off" fully explains why Cyril of Alexandria's Against Julian is in the Aegean text as in Migne when TLG chose not to transcribe it to await an expected new edition.

Anyhow, TLG sues the Aegean University and, I suppose, the Greek government was and is so bankrupt that they couldn't afford litigation costs, and just removed it somewhere around 2007. It was made available again briefly in 2009, but again removed.

The project manager felt that he had used sources legitimately, and gave copies to Russlan Kazarzar to "get around" the matter, says the TLG representative. I noticed that Kazarzar has removed links from his personal website to the location of the Aegean texts, but the texts are still available at a server he appears to be renting space from.

The whole ugly story, from the POV of TLG, is on Roger Pearse's blog. The person who says she represents TLG was very bitter and angry at the Aegean department head, and mentions that TLG transcribed the texts from modern copyrighted editions "at great expense", and resents someone else "stealing" them and making them freely available, when TLG charges (dearly) for access.

From what I could see of the Aegean texts, there were clearly transcription errors, but I had always attributed them to human transcribers. It is also all run together, making it very hard to tell where particular passages relate to the paragraph and numbering systems used in modern translations. Some texts seem to have been transcribed better than others.

I cannot tell whether TLG is correct or just expressing "sour grapes" over free versions of most of the same texts. The Aegean texts themselves make no mention of sources, although they were represented as from Migne. I suppose they could have used TLG, among other "modern" editions, to alter Migne to reflect current scholarship, without disclosing this use. I just don't know ...

All sites I have found that claim to offer Greek and Latin fathers online in the original languages charge at least $400 for an individual license, and some do not even allow copying of the text or will not publically post the price for a subscription.

Sheez!

DCH

[ficino]

Sorry, guys, this is making me feel very old.

Peter, as far as I can see, your links only provide Contra Iulianum books 1-2 from the Sources Chretiennes edition of 1985 and fragments from parts of the work beyond book 10.

[Peter Kirby]

Pearse has this page on the mss.

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/manus ... lianum.htm

And this translation.

http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/index ... nst_Julian

It appears that if there is more to be read, it's not online.

[Stephan Huller]

http://khazarzar.skeptik.net/pgm/PG_Migne/

[Peter Kirby]

A site for getting "PG" PDFs is here: http://khazarzar.skeptik.net/pgm/PG_Migne/

[ficino]

Thanks guys, I've seen the Khazarzar links. As Peter says, it appears that Contra Iulianum bks. 3-10 are not online, at least, on any site we've discussed.