Get Berean Interlinear and all your troubles are overSteven Avery wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:27 am In addition to the question for spin, about the Greek text, I am also questioning English language experts to simply look at the Authorized Version text and give what they would see as the likely meaning.
e.g. I just put the question up at Reddit.
the English text of the Authorized Version on Romans 9:5 - simplest, clearest interpretation
https://www.reddit.com/r/grammar/commen ... ersion_on/
ὧν (whose are) οἱ (the) πατέρες (patriarchs); καὶ (and) ἐξ (from) ὧν (whom is) ὁ (-) Χριστὸς (Christ) τὸ (-) κατὰ (according to) σάρκα (the flesh), ὁ (-) ὢν (being) ἐπὶ (over) πάντων (all) Θεὸς (God), εὐλογητὸς (blessed) εἰς (to) τοὺς (the) αἰῶνας (ages).
ἀμήν (Amen).
You'll have to check the words by clicking on them, which will lead you to biblehub. There you have to use some common sense by looking at what the description says, what the various translations are, etc - as a great part of it all is interpretation nonetheless
πατέρες means fathers, and one must know that no MS ever has diacritics so there can't be any difference between ὧν and ὢν other than what one wants it to be.
And it doesn't say anything like Χριστὸς ever anywhere, the only word that comes close to Christ is the Chrestians from Acts 11:26, 26:28 and 1 Peter 4:16. Sinaiticus has the easiest navigation and a great transcription:
ων οι πατερεϲ και εξ ων ο χϲ το κατα ϲαρκα ο ων επι παντων θϲ ευλογητοϲ ειϲ τουϲ αιωναϲ αμην
Notice the replacement of the ν of παντων by a superlinear, a highly likely legacy from Demotic, occurring hundreds of times in Christian MSS like this one - that, on a side note
The translation likely is NASB or WEB or something, don't use it!
https://codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscri ... omSlider=0
This is the very least of the hoops one has to jump through - if only someone would make us a fine literal NT translation!
Having a go at your Reddit post:
Romans 9:5 (AV)
Whose are the fathers,
and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came,
who is over all,
God blessed for ever.
Amen.
My version:
Romans 9:5 (AV)
Of-whom the fathers,
and out-of whom the XS - he-who according-to the-flesh
he-who being over all god
well-spoken-of into the aeons
amen
And it just says what it says: "Christ is god"