James the brother of Jesus who is called Christ in Josephus

[andrewcriddle]

You are right. I have never heard of anyone claim that James the Just the brother of Jesus was Christ. Is that how you read it in Greek or from a mythicist forum?

"and brought before them the brother of Jesus, whose name was James, and some others;"

Now it reads as it should. You've never heard? I'm sure there's a lot you've never heard. And why don't you translate it from the Greek, correctly, so it reads like James is the brother of Jesus. Making it up, as a Trumper would, doesn't work.

The problem is that Jesus was a very common name, calling someone the brother of an unspecified Jesus would probably not be a good identifier.

Andrew Criddle

[ABuddhist]

You are right. I have never heard of anyone claim that James the Just the brother of Jesus was Christ. Is that how you read it in Greek or from a mythicist forum?

"and brought before them the brother of Jesus, whose name was James, and some others;"

Now it reads as it should. You've never heard? I'm sure there's a lot you've never heard. And why don't you translate it from the Greek, correctly, so it reads like James is the brother of Jesus. Making it up, as a Trumper would, doesn't work.

The problem is that Jesus was a very common name, calling someone the brother of an unspecified Jesus would probably not be a good identifier.

Andrew Criddle

A, but there is another Jesus in that passage who would be more easily associated with the dead James - Jesus ben Damneus. One of my strange flights of fancy (although not original to me) is that the words "called Christ" might have been original and referring to Jesus ben Damneus, who would have been nicknamed that because he had been anointed as a priest. But I have full awareness of how strange that theory is.

[VinnyJH]

Does anyone else wonder about these "equitable" citizens who got all worked up over the injustice done to James? Ananus was not someone to be trifled with. Who would really have challenged him for the sake of the peasant brother of a failed messiah? That has always made me lean toward interpolation.

[MrMacSon]

Does anyone else wonder about these "equitable" citizens who got all worked up over the injustice done to James?

Yes

[Paul the Uncertain]

Does anyone else wonder about these "equitable" citizens who got all worked up over the injustice done to James? Ananus was not someone to be trifled with. Who would really have challenged him for the sake of the peasant brother of a failed messiah? That has always made me lean toward interpolation.

It's been a while; welcome back.

(Received) Josephus doesn't actually say that anybody cared about James as an individual.

20.201 The fairest of the citizens and those most upset at the breaking of the laws, disliked this being done and sent to the king, asking him to stop Ananus from acting like this in future, as what he had already done was not right.

20.202 Some of them also went to meet Albinus as he was on his way from Alexandria, to tell him that Ananus had wrongfully assembled a Sanhedrin without his consent.

20.203 Albinus agreed with this and wrote in anger to Ananus threatening to punish him for doing this. So king Agrippa deposed him from the high priesthood, after he had ruled for only three months, and appointed Jesus, the son of Damnaeus, as high priest.

https://www.biblical.ie/page.php?fl=jos ... ies/AJGk20

It doesn't seem to be a matter of trifling with Ananus. The citizens had the law on their side, and Albinus and Agrippa enforced the law. Granted, there was risk involved, but there always is risk in politics yet people play politics anyway.

I do agree with your conclusion, though, that there's an interpolation more likely than not. I also share a sense that a politically well connected James (e.g. brother of one or the other of the two priestly Jesuses mentioned in the story, a son of Damneus or of Gamaliel) might have more strongly motivated the citizenry who enjoyed personal access to the king and procurator to appreciate the niceties of the law of occupation.

[ABuddhist]

Does anyone else wonder about these "equitable" citizens who got all worked up over the injustice done to James? Ananus was not someone to be trifled with. Who would really have challenged him for the sake of the peasant brother of a failed messiah? That has always made me lean toward interpolation.

Or referring to James Jesus ben Damneus's brother.

[Paul the Uncertain]

Does anyone else wonder about these "equitable" citizens who got all worked up over the injustice done to James? Ananus was not someone to be trifled with. Who would really have challenged him for the sake of the peasant brother of a failed messiah? That has always made me lean toward interpolation.

Or referring to James Jesus ben Damneus's brother.

If I may ask, why Damneus and not Gamaliel? I appreciate that Jesus ben Ananus (a different Ananus) from War is a dark horse, but why not Jesus ben Gamaliel?

[John2]

Does anyone else wonder about these "equitable" citizens who got all worked up over the injustice done to James?

Yes

I see these citizens as consisting at least partly of "one of the priests of the sons of Rechab" mentioned in Hegesippus' account of the stoning of James the Just in EH 2.23.17.

And while they were thus stoning him one of the priests of the sons of Rechab, the son of the Rechabites, who are mentioned by Jeremiah the prophet, cried out, saying, "Stop. What are you doing? The just one prays for you."

[ABuddhist]

Does anyone else wonder about these "equitable" citizens who got all worked up over the injustice done to James? Ananus was not someone to be trifled with. Who would really have challenged him for the sake of the peasant brother of a failed messiah? That has always made me lean toward interpolation.

Or referring to James Jesus ben Damneus's brother.

If I may ask, why Damneus and not Gamaliel? I appreciate that Jesus ben Ananus (a different Ananus) from War is a dark horse, but why not Jesus ben Gamaliel?

I have only seen Jesus ben Damneus suggested as an alternative explanation, and he is in the narrative at its end. But if you know about suggestions by any that Jesus ben Gamaliel was the Jesus James's brother, feel free to share them.

[MrMacSon]

Does anyone else wonder about these "equitable" citizens who got all worked up over the injustice done to James? Ananus was not someone to be trifled with. Who would really have challenged him for the sake of the peasant brother of a failed messiah? That has always made me lean toward interpolation.

Or referring to James Jesus ben Damneus's brother.

If I may ask, why Damneus and not Gamaliel?

Most people consider Jesus ben Damneus b/c he is mentioned soon after, in Antiquities 20.203, as I'm sure you're aware, as Ananus's replacement.

Another alternative, besides Jesus ben Gamaliel, could be Jesus ben Saphat/Sapphas/Sapphias

Antiquities 20.200 in part:

... [Ananus] assembled a judiciary Sanhedrin and brought before them James, the brother of Jesus [...] and some others, and after condemning them as lawbreakers