How the evangelists understood the nature of their gospels

[andrewcriddle]

Moreover Irenaeus's consistent point about Mark is that the heretics separate 'Jesus' and 'Christ' through it. As Ehrman notes this might sound like an adoptionist understanding of the baptism but Irenaeus doesn't mention that. Instead he references something which isn't in Mark any more at least the idea that Christ stood watching while Jesus suffered on the Cross. While it is important to note that this alone would suggest that Irenaeus's Mark did not resemble our surviving text it is also worth noting that in Adv Haer 4.2 Irenaeus identifies another passage as being in Mark which does not currently appear in Mark.

It is possible to (mis)read canonical Mark so as to have Simon of Cyrene crucified instead of Jesus.
This is an almost impossible way to read the other Gospels.

Andrew Criddle

[Secret Alias]

I am quite interested in this suggestion Andrew. Could you explain this to me. As always you continue to surprise.

[Adam]

After all WE KNOW the Imperial authorities confiscated the Diatessaron from the churches of the East in the fifth/sixth century.

Maybe whatever was used as the ONE gospel in any church was seized by the Romans as part of this deal. This would account for the disappearance of variously any diatessaron, Gospel of the Hebrews (Nazarenes, Ebionites, etc), or any surviving Proto-Gospel that really did underlie the four gospels.

[MrMacSon]

But MrMacSon just made explicit one of the possibilities, John..

Had he stated a possibility, I would have nothing to say.

But he stated it as a certainty.

Rubbish. All I did was make explicit another possibility, -viz. --

Either (a) you force some ridiculous interpretation of the statement, or (b) you accept that Paul said umpteen things in support of his belief that Jesus was an angel but also said this.

or 'born of a woman' is (c) an interpolation, or (d) due to redaction.

Reality is Pauline text was a community effort, and what many claim as interpolation could simply be multiple hands in the cookie jar that help "guide a scribe".

or "multiple hands in the cookie jar" over many years/generations -ie. revisions/redactions.

Yes,
"interpolation ...could have been added to combat gnostic communities who thought he came in spirit" -ie. revision/redaction.

• or
  " 'interpolation' ..could have been added to combat initial Pauline gnostic-like theology that 'He' came in spirit" -ie. revision/redaction.

[outhouse]

or 'born of a woman' is an interpolation or due to redaction.

You stated this as a certainty. "is an"

[MrMacSon]

or 'born of a woman' is an interpolation or due to redaction.

You stated this as a certainty. "is an"

"or", Fuckwit

[outhouse]

or "multiple hands in the cookie jar" over many years/generations -ie. revisions/redactions.

Yes,
"interpolation ...could have been added to combat gnostic communities who thought he came in spirit" -ie. revision/redaction.

or
" 'interpolation' ..could have been added to combat initial Pauline gnostic-like theology that 'He' came in spirit" -ie. revision/redaction.

Had you stated a possibility not "is an" I would be in full agreement.

knowing it may not be original, and not redacted or interpolated and that it is not certain by any means, leaves you "is an" as what I originally called it. Unsubstantiated rhetoric.

As far as I know Earl started this rhetoric and he was never a biblical scholar, now I understand full well other have latched onto this so called gem


But an article from vridar shows known interpolations and its not even listed there.



Accuracy means everything here. Not "this is the way it is" when it is not

[outhouse]

or 'born of a woman' is an interpolation or due to redaction.

You stated this as a certainty. "is an"

"or", Fuckwit

Desperation from constant errors is easily seen when one looses their cool, when corrected. I say thank you when held to the wall as I'm learning.

[Secret Alias]

Maybe whatever was used as the ONE gospel in any church was seized by the Romans as part of this deal.

or the story wasn't true.

[neilgodfrey]

or 'born of a woman' is an interpolation or due to redaction.

Unsubstantiated rhetoric.

Not so. The reasons for believing that there is a real possibility of it being an interpolation are strong and explained by Bart Ehrman in his Orthodox Corruption of Scripture. You can read a copy of the relevant section at http://vridar.org/2012/07/07/hoffmanns- ... EhrmanGal4 R. Joseph Hoffmann also offers good reasons for suggesting it is an interpolation -- see the same post.