How do you say ...... ?

[neilgodfrey]

Most of my studies related to biblical themes have been undertaken as a private hobby so I have not had the benefit of hearing how various names and terms are pronounced in classrooms and conversations. So I sometimes do find myself wondering if I am hearing some names correctly in my head.

First one: Pauline as in Paul's letters etc. I had always assumed this to be pronounced like the girl's name until I saw a movie in which a priest grimaced in pain when a young student pronounced it that way. He acidly corrected her: "Pau-LIGN"

Is there a standard way of pronouncing this word among the "real students"? Does it vary between American and English English?

Then there are others, too. I presume Irenaeus is eye-REEN-y-us. Or am I putting the stress on the wrong syllable there?

I had always heard Macion as Markion, until I watched a video where it was pronounced Marsion. I presume a talking head on an internet video would be correct, yes?

I am sure there are others. Maybe I can add more to this thread as they come to me. I'm sure others must have some they are unsure about, too.

[Ben C. Smith]

Most of my studies related to biblical themes have been undertaken as a private hobby so I have not had the benefit of hearing how various names and terms are pronounced in classrooms and conversations. So I sometimes do find myself wondering if I am hearing some names correctly in my head.

I am in basically the same boat. My education was in the Classics, which only barely touched upon Biblical and Patristic matters.

First one: Pauline as in Paul's letters etc. I had always assumed this to be pronounced like the girl's name until I saw a movie in which a priest grimaced in pain when a young student pronounced it that way. He acidly corrected her: "Pau-LIGN"

I pronounce it like the feminine name, as given in the IPA on the Wiktionary page: pô'lēn'.

Then there are others, too. I presume Irenaeus is eye-REEN-y-us. Or am I putting the stress on the wrong syllable there?

Here is Emma's take on that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nQ6UJHGcY8. But she makes it sound pretty strange; here is another take, which I prefer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsLFZZtiR4o (5 seconds in).

I had always heard Marcion as Markion, until I watched a video where it was pronounced Marsion. I presume a talking head on an internet video would be correct, yes?

Here is Emma again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_CyUnEadl4. I have heard it both ways. Stephen Carlson pronounces it exactly like "Martian", while Judith Lieu pronounces it more like "MAR-cee-on". R. M. Price tends to pronounce it like "MAR-cee-own".

To put a k sound in there has to be wrong, though of course that is how it would have been in the original Greek; but Greek and Latin words have filtered down to us through medieval Latin, and now in English a c followed by an e or an i should be soft. Modern English speakers pronouncing "Celtic" with an initial k sound is a monstrosity. If they were consistent, it would be forgivable. But nobody pronounces Cicero, Cervera, or even Caesar with a k sound in English.

Ben.

[MrMacSon]

First one: Pauline as in Paul's letters etc. I had always assumed this to be pronounced like the girl's name until I saw a movie in which a priest grimaced in pain when a young student pronounced it that way. He acidly corrected her: "Pau-LIGN"

What nationality was the movie? (or the priest?)

To note Ben's comment & reference, would "Pau-LIGN" be pô'Lign? or Paul-line?

I pronounce it like the feminine name, as given in the IPA on the Wiktionary page: pô'lēn'.

..lēn' would sound feminine to me too, yet pô.. seems American. I'd probably say paw'lēn'

[DCHindley]

First one: Pauline as in Paul's letters etc. I had always assumed this to be pronounced like the girl's name until I saw a movie in which a priest grimaced in pain when a young student pronounced it that way. He acidly corrected her: "Pau-LIGN"

What nationality was the movie? (or the priest?)

To note Ben's comment & reference, would "Pau-LIGN" be pô'Lign? or Paul-line?

I pronounce it like the feminine name, as given in the IPA on the Wiktionary page: pô'lēn'.

..lēn' would sound feminine to me too, yet pô.. seems American. I'd probably say paw'lēn'

Someday, when I write my amazing book (I am channeling Donald trump at the moment, so check the ratings jump thru the roof), I shall call it, with a straight face, The Perils of Pauleen.

DCH

[MrMacSon]

How about Poorleen?

[Ben C. Smith]

..lēn' would sound feminine to me too, yet pô.. seems American. I'd probably say paw'lēn'

The ô marker is pronounced "aw", as in "paw": https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix ... nunciation. The American Heritage Dictionary uses it.

[toejam]

Ha. Good question. I suppose most of us just take on the pronunciation that is most common within the circles we listen to audibly. I say Pauline as "Poor-leen", and Marcion as "Mar-see-on". I don't know why haha.

[outhouse]

Mar-see-on for me as well. And yes I think I was taught Paul-een as well.

Does it vary between American and English English?

No reason why it would not bud.

[Secret Alias]

That can't be the pronunciation of Marcion. Tertullian may be the most important source for us but that should have no relevance here. Of course given the fact that we are narcissists we will make the works dearest to our hearts decide matters (or the only works read) but don't count me in among the rest of the narcissists here. The Marcionites clearly existed in great number in East and Ephrem makes clear that the pronunciation is Marqiyon. Moreover he makes a play on words between Marqiyon and מרק (= to cleanse, to polish) seals the deal. And Ephrem is very specific about the Marcionite pronunciation of other words (= Jesus for instance). He can't be wrong. There is no doubt that 'Marseeon' is wrong. Even in Hebrew it's Marqiyon.

[Ulan]

The first time I heard an English talk with lots of Latin and Greek words, I was a bit surprised that they were basically pronounced in a specifically English way. I then asked one of the professors whether there was a way to easily look up these pronunciations, but he just answered "Don't sweat it. Everyone pronounces these as they see fit." Well, that's how far my adventures into this direction went.

If you go for a more "authentic" pronunciation, that's also changing with the times, as there's no way to know for sure. My Latin classes were long over when I was told that "Caesar" would now be pronounced like the German "Kaiser", because linguists now found out that this was the correct classical pronunciation. Well, who would have thought that this is a direct transliteration. Anyway, if I go with this example, then I have to conclude that Emma's take on "Irenaeus" is pretty close to the correct, classical Latin pronunciation. The medieval one would be different.