Be Afraid. Be Very Afraid For. Confirmation 16:8 Original

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
User avatar
JoeWallack
Posts: 1595
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:22 pm
Contact:

The Argumentum of Cosmas Indicopleustes

Post by JoeWallack »

Textual Healing's Good For Jews

JW:
Additional Argumenta evidence that 16:8 is original:
Mark’s Endings in Context: Paratexts and Codicological Remarks by Mina Monier ORCID
2.2. The Argumentum of Cosmas Indicopleustes
In slightly over fifty minuscule manuscripts, a series of argumenta attributed to Cosmas Indicopleustes preface their respective New Testament texts.9
...
Cosmas’ argumentum for Mark ends with an abrupt statement, claiming that Mark concluded his writing with the death and resurrection of Jesus (τὸν θάνατον καὶ τὴν ἀνάστασιν, ἐτέλεσε τὴν ἑαυτοῦ συγγραφήν).
...
Cosmas’ argumenta were in fact extracted from his work known as Christian Topography (Χριστιανική Τοπογραφία), a 6th century work which survives today in three manuscripts
...
sixth-century Christian from Alexandria
JW:
Another witness for 16:8. More evidence that to the 6th century 16:8 was still dominant and known to be likely original or at least earliest.


Joseph

"Moving forward, the slave trade, ran by many nations of people, Portuguese, Spanish, Dutch, British, Arabs, Indians and Jews" - Ronald Dullton Jr

Hebrews To Negroes: Wake Up Black America - Book Review - "Jewish Slave Trade"
Steven Avery
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:27 am

Re: Be Afraid. Be Very Afraid For. Confirmation 16:8 Original

Post by Steven Avery »

Cosmas writes of the Ascension being in Mark.

Christianikē Topographia: The Christian Topography of Cosmas, an Egyptian Monk (1897)
Cosmas (Indicopleustes.)
J. W. McCrindle
https://books.google.com/books?id=UQEZAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA220

And he also, being a preacher of the New Testament, wrote for us the same things as his predecessor, beginning with the account of the baptism, which is a type of the resurrection from the dead—that is, of the new and heavenly dispensation. He showed how Christ was baptized, and what was His manner of life, and how He was put to death, and rose again and ascended into heaven, where there is the seat and the polity of the second state. Glory to God who from the beginning has prepared it, and announced it beforehand and has fulfilled it, and is fulfilling it. Amen!
gryan
Posts: 1120
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:11 am

Re: Be Afraid. Be Very Afraid For. Confirmation 16:8 Original

Post by gryan »

Steven Avery wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:20 pm Cosmas writes of the Ascension being in Mark.

Christianikē Topographia: The Christian Topography of Cosmas, an Egyptian Monk (1897)
Cosmas (Indicopleustes.)
J. W. McCrindle
https://books.google.com/books?id=UQEZAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA220

And he also, being a preacher of the New Testament, wrote for us the same things as his predecessor, beginning with the account of the baptism, which is a type of the resurrection from the dead...
Interesting character!
"Cosmas Indicopleustes", Indico-pleustes, means "Indian voyager", from πλέω "(I) sail".

"A major feature of his Christian Topography is his worldview that the world is flat and that the heavens form the shape of a box with a curved lid. He was scornful of Ptolemy and others who held that the world was spherical. Cosmas aimed to prove that pre-Christian geographers had been wrong in asserting that the earth was spherical..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmas_Indicopleustes
perseusomega9
Posts: 1030
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:19 am

Re: Be Afraid. Be Very Afraid For. Confirmation 16:8 Original

Post by perseusomega9 »

Steven Avery wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:20 pm Cosmas writes of the Ascension being in Mark.

Christianikē Topographia: The Christian Topography of Cosmas, an Egyptian Monk (1897)
Cosmas (Indicopleustes.)
J. W. McCrindle
https://books.google.com/books?id=UQEZAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA220

And he also, being a preacher of the New Testament, wrote for us the same things as his predecessor, beginning with the account of the baptism, which is a type of the resurrection from the dead—that is, of the new and heavenly dispensation. He showed how Christ was baptized, and what was His manner of life, and how He was put to death, and rose again and ascended into heaven, where there is the seat and the polity of the second state. Glory to God who from the beginning has prepared it, and announced it beforehand and has fulfilled it, and is fulfilling it. Amen!
Someone didn't read the article.
Steven Avery
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:27 am

Re: Be Afraid. Be Very Afraid For. Confirmation 16:8 Original

Post by Steven Avery »

Notice the chronological account:

“and how He was put to death,
and rose again
and ascended into heaven,
where there is the seat and the polity of the second state.”

Mark 16:6
Mark 16:19 - he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

Mina Monier
Instead of pointing to the explicit reference to the ascension in the Long Ending of Mark, Cosmas contents himself with showing that the four elements of Jesus’s work were attested elsewhere in Mark. So, he concludes Mark’s παραγραφή with the reference to Jesus’s ascension, using the exact wording in the Matthean παραγραφή to enforce the concept of harmony between the two Gospels.

This section above is very different than how Cosmas explains Matthew, and does in fact mirror the traditional ending.
User avatar
JoeWallack
Posts: 1595
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:22 pm
Contact:

The Greek Manuscript Tradition Doubting LE as Original

Post by JoeWallack »

JW:
GA 90 (f. 227r), as a Latin marginal note next to verse 16:8 informs us that “Eusebius Pamphile fixed this as the end of the Gospel.
GA 90 = 16th century. GA 90 is always shown as evidence for LE and never shown as evidence against. The marginal note though asserts that Eusebius concluded that 16:8 was original. So it seems that it is also evidence against the LE. The better question is which is it better evidence for? The Manuscript contains the LE but also contains evidence against, from an identified source from over a thousand years earlier. It appears that Manuscripts in the 16th century were required by the Church to have the LE but were permitted to have evidence indicating that the LE was not original. We see in the Greek Manuscript tradition that there is a lot of related evidence that the LE was not original.


Joseph

Hebrews To Negroes: Wake Up Black America - Book Review - "Jewish Slave Trade"
User avatar
JoeWallack
Posts: 1595
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:22 pm
Contact:

Really Bad Opera. Zola!

Post by JoeWallack »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BBZVQ4zBcU

JW:

https://www.fdr.uni-hamburg.de/record/1 ... download=1

The Ending of Mark in Tatian’s Diatessaron (Nicholas J. Zola) 439
Tatian’s Diatessaron, a harmonized gospel composed c.170 ce, is often cited as one of the earliest explicit references to the Longer Ending (LE) of Mark (16:9–20). Yet no comprehensive study of the LE’s presence in the Diatessaron has been carried out, and there is much confusion over its use as evidence. The current study compares the resurrection narrative in the eleventh-century Arabic harmony with that of the sixth-century Latin Codex Fuldensis, the two earliest and most reliable representatives for reconstructing the Diatessaron’s sequence. If they incorporate the LE in exactly the same way, we may safely conclude that Tatian’s copy of Mark contained the LE. Using neighboring harmonies as controls, I arrive at two parallel conclusions: (1) Tatian almost certainly incorporated significant portions of Mark 16:9–20 into his Diatessaron; (2) it is not entirely clear which portions of Mark 16:1–8 were present in the Diatessaron. Ultimately, the study demonstrates that Tatian’s Diatessaron is likely the earliest uncontested external evidence for the LE.
Commentary:
Ephrem cites Mark 16:15 twice in his Commentary (cf. also 6.21a for an allusion). At 19.15 he writes, ‘Go forth into the whole world, and baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Spirit’. At 8.21b he writes, ‘Go out into the whole world and proclaim my Gospel to the whole of creation and baptize all the Gentiles’ (McCarthy 1993, 289, 145). Both citations are a combination of Mark 16:15b and Matt 28:19a; although they include slightly different content from Mark 16:15b, the word order is the same as in Diat.Arab/Diat.Fuld. No-468 Nicholas J. Zola COMSt Bulletin 8/2 (2022) tably, Ephrem confirms the reading of ‘my gospel’ in Diat.Arab, which to my knowledge has not been noted before. This particular citation of Mark 16:15 in Ephrem (at 8.21b) is often overlooked because it is mislabeled as Matt 28:19 in McCarthy, although Leloir 1990, 113 correctly identifies it as a coming from both Gospels. With the evidence of Diat.Arab, Ephrem, and syrp the reading ‘my gospel’ in Mark 16:15 may be a true Tatianic reading. – Despite the addition of John 20:21b in Diat.Arab, the evidence is strong for the presence of Mark 16:15 in the Diatessaron. With Ephrem’s triangulating support, Tatian’s inclusion of this verse is perhaps the most secure for all of the LE.

Joseph

"Writing these posts is just like having sex. I'm up here doing all the work and you're down there making all the noise." - JoeWallack

The New Porphyry
Post Reply