The Christian Forger and the Emmaus Narrative

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Secret Alias
Posts: 18922
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

The Christian Forger and the Emmaus Narrative

Post by Secret Alias »

Goldberg has an interesting piece on the stylistic similarities between the Testamonium and the Emmaus narrative. I wonder whether all of this goes back to Julius Africanus and his establishment of a library where the text of Josephus and Christian materials might have been place. We already know he forged additions to Platonic texts and placed them in his library or libraries. Isn't it possible that Africanus was Eusebius's precursor in forging Christian literature and Josephus.

http://www.josephus.org/GoldbergJosephusLuke1995.pdf
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
iskander
Posts: 2091
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: The Christian Forger and the Emmaus Narrative

Post by iskander »

deleted)
Last edited by iskander on Mon May 01, 2017 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
iskander
Posts: 2091
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: The Christian Forger and the Emmaus Narrative

Post by iskander »

The interesting part of the story is this: 30When he was at the table with them, he took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them. 31Then their eyes were opened, and they recognized him; and he vanished from their sight.


It suggests that the breaking of the bread had been a ceremony, during dinner , indicating fellowship . The Eucharist would have been then a declaration signifying belonging: “All for one and one for all, united we stand divided we fall.” ( dumas)
Last edited by iskander on Mon May 01, 2017 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
iskander
Posts: 2091
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: The Christian Forger and the Emmaus Narrative

Post by iskander »

deleted
Secret Alias
Posts: 18922
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: The Christian Forger and the Emmaus Narrative

Post by Secret Alias »

Julius Africanus got permission to rebuild Emmaus as a memorial to the ending found in Luke:
Marcus Aurelius Antoninus [ruled for] four years. In Palestine the city of Nicopolis, previously called Emmaeus, was [re] founded; Julius Africanus, a writer of that period, was given the commission to do so. This is that Emmaeus which the Lord vouchsafed to make holy by entering it after his resurrection, as St. Luke narrates.
https://books.google.com/books?id=ONSPL ... us&f=false

The usual thinking is that Luke was already around for a century and a half. But really? What is the earliest evidence for the Emmaus story? But what's the actual evidence:
It is well also that the disciples' unbelief persisted, so that right to the end our claim should stand that to the disciples Christ Jesus had declared himself no other than the Christ of the prophets. For when two of them were on a journey, and the Lord had joined himself with them, while it did not appear that it was he himself, and he even pretended not to be aware of the things that had happened, they said, But we were thinking that he himself was the Redeemer of Israel, evidently Israel's, and the Creator's, Christ. To that extent had he never declared himself any other. Otherwise they would not have supposed him the Creator's: and when he was supposed to be the Creator's, he would not have tolerated this supposition about himself if he had not been who he was supposed to be. Otherwise he must be thought of as the author of error and a renegade from the truth: and this will not suit your description of him as a god supremely good. But not even after his resurrection did he show them that he was any different from him they said they thought him to be. It is true that he severely rebuked them: O fools, and slow of heart in not believing all the things which he spoke to you. In saying this he proves he belongs not to another
god but to the same God. For the angels had said the same to the women: Remember the things he spoke to you in Galilee, saying that the Son of man must needs be delivered up, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. And why 'must needs', except it was so written by God the Creator ? That is why he rebuked them, for being offended at his passion, and nothing more, and for being doubtful in the faith of the resurrection reported to them by the women, and for these reasons ceasing to believe that he was who they had trusted he had been. And so, since it was his wish to be believed to be that which they had trusted he was, he affirmed that he was who they had trusted he was, the Creator's Christ, the Redeemer of Israel.


Epiphanius On Satornilus:

And Luke affirms that the Saviour himself appeared on the road to Nathanael and Cleopas after his resurrection from the dead, and admonished them from the psalms and the prophets that 'Thus it behoved Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day.'34 And there is no discrepancy whatever between Christ's incarnation and the oracles of the prophets.

Yet no one ever spells out why Emmaus was the proper place for the messiah of Israel to appear - it is because this is the place the original messiah Judah Maccabee manifest his glory:
Gorgias took five thousand infantry and one thousand select cavalry, and this division moved out secretly at night. 2 He wanted to come to the Jewish camp and attack without warning. Men from the elevated fortress served as his guides. 3 But Judas heard about it, and he and his warriors moved out to attack the king’s forces in Emmaus 4 while the division was absent from the camp. 5 So when Gorgias entered Judas’ camp during the night, there was no one there. He started looking for them in the hills, because he said, “These men are running away from us.”

6 At daybreak, Judas appeared in the plain with three thousand men. But they didn’t have armor and swords such as they would have liked. 7 They saw the Gentile camp, strongly fortified, surrounded by cavalry clearly trained in warfare. 8 Judas said to those who were with him: “Don’t fear their numbers or be afraid when they charge. 9 Remember how our ancestors were saved at the Red Sea,[a] when Pharaoh was pursuing them with his forces. 10 So let’s cry to heaven to see if the heavenly one will favor us and remember his covenant with our ancestors and crush this army in front of us today. 11 Then all the Gentiles will know that there is someone who redeems and saves Israel (ὅτι ἔστιν ὁ λυτρούμενος καὶ σῴζων τὸν Ισραηλ).” [1 Maccabees 4:1 - 11]
Indeed the language is so remarkably similar to Luke 24 it can't possibly be accidental. The disciples say:
The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; 21 but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel (ἡμεῖς δὲ ἠλπίζομεν ὅτι αὐτός ἐστιν ὁ μέλλων λυτροῦσθαι τὸν Ἰσραήλ).
Clearly then Emmaus was chosen by someone as the place Jesus appeared after the resurrection to confirm the fact that he was the messiah, just like Judas Maccabeus.
Last edited by Secret Alias on Mon May 01, 2017 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
Posts: 18922
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: The Christian Forger and the Emmaus Narrative

Post by Secret Alias »

Let's cite the whole passage from 1 Maccabees which makes reference to Emmaus. There is a revelation of critical significance for Judaism - the person of the messiah.
Then Judas and his men assembled and marched to Mizpah, opposite Jerusalem, because the people of Israel had previously had a place of worship there. 47 In deep mourning, they fasted all that day, put on sackcloth, threw ashes on their heads, and tore their clothes. 48 The Gentiles would have consulted their idols in such a situation, but the Israelites unrolled the book of the Law to search for God's guidance.49 They brought the priests' robes, the offerings of the first grain, and the tithes, and then they brought in some Nazirites who had completed their vows. 50 The whole community prayed,

Lord, what shall we do with these things? Where shall we take them, 51 now that your holy Temple has been trampled and profaned by Gentiles, and your priests mourn in disgrace? 52 The Gentiles have come to attack and destroy us. You know what they plan to do! 53 If you don't help us, how can we stand up against them?
54 Then they blew trumpets and shouted loudly.

55 After that, Judas divided his men into groups of ten, fifty, a hundred, and a thousand, placing officers in charge of each group. 56 Then, in obedience to the Law, he sent home everyone who had recently been married, built a house, or planted a vineyard, as well as anyone who was afraid. 57 Finally, the army marched out and took up positions south of Emmaus, 58 where Judas said to them:

Prepare yourselves for battle and be courageous! Be ready early tomorrow morning to fight these Gentiles who have joined forces to attack us and destroy us and our Temple. 59 It is better for us to die fighting than to stand idly by and watch the destruction of our nation and our Temple. 60 But the Lord will do what he pleases.

Gorgias took five thousand infantry and one thousand select cavalry, and this division moved out secretly at night. 2 He wanted to come to the Jewish camp and attack without warning. Men from the elevated fortress served as his guides. 3 But Judas heard about it, and he and his warriors moved out to attack the king’s forces in Emmaus 4 while the division was absent from the camp. 5 So when Gorgias entered Judas’ camp during the night, there was no one there. He started looking for them in the hills, because he said, “These men are running away from us.”

6 At daybreak, Judas appeared in the plain with three thousand men. But they didn’t have armor and swords such as they would have liked. 7 They saw the Gentile camp, strongly fortified, surrounded by cavalry clearly trained in warfare. 8 Judas said to those who were with him: “Don’t fear their numbers or be afraid when they charge. 9 Remember how our ancestors were saved at the Red Sea,[a] when Pharaoh was pursuing them with his forces. 10 So let’s cry to heaven to see if the heavenly one will favor us and remember his covenant with our ancestors and crush this army in front of us today. 11 Then all the Gentiles will know that there is someone who redeems and saves Israel.
More from Nodet on the messianic significance of the passage:
At the moment when Judaea was being reconquered and the battle of Emmaus was beginning, 1 Macc. 3.50-60 relates that Judas prepared his troops by following fairly closely the procedures provided for in Deut. 20.1-9, a passage that might be qualified as a ritual for holy war. The Mishnah (Sot. 8.1), contrary to its custom of keeping a certain distance from the biblical text, offers a literal commentary on this passage:
The Messiah of war ['anointed of war'], at the moment of speaking to the people, it is in sacred language [] that he speaks, for it is said: 'And when you will be [in the plural] [LXX “you will be” (in the singular)] ready for combat, the priest shall come forward'—it is the Messiah of war—'and he shall speak to the people' in sacred language—-'He shall say to them: Listen, Israel, you are today about to fight against your enemies'——and not against your brothers-— may your heart not be faint, [...] for it is YHWH your God who marches with you to fight for you against your enemies, in order to save you'—this is the camp of the Ark.
Clearly a later editor - the author of Luke - has developed the gospel to make it seem as if Jesus was the fulfillment of the messiah whose typology was Judas Maccabee. But notice also that the entry of Jesus into Jerusalem borrows heavily from anther passage in the Judas Maccabees tradition. This entry is described in 2 Macc. 10:7 (NRSV) as follows:
Therefore, carrying ivy-wreathed wands and beautiful branches and also fronds of palm, they offered hymns of thanksgiving to him who had given success to the purifying of his own holy place
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
Posts: 18922
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: The Christian Forger and the Emmaus Narrative

Post by Secret Alias »

A secondary revision to the gospel was undertaken to make him appear to be the messiah of Israel. In the original write he was the Son of God. Important distinction.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
iskander
Posts: 2091
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: The Christian Forger and the Emmaus Narrative

Post by iskander »

Secret Alias wrote:Goldberg has an interesting piece on the stylistic similarities between the Testamonium and the Emmaus narrative. I wonder whether all of this goes back to Julius Africanus and his establishment of a library where the text of Josephus and Christian materials might have been place. We already know he forged additions to Platonic texts and placed them in his library or libraries. Isn't it possible that Africanus was Eusebius's precursor in forging Christian literature and Josephus.

http://www.josephus.org/GoldbergJosephusLuke1995.pdf
You have quoted this pdf.

Please explain why you see Africanus in that text.

The introduction says this:
I shall discuss three possible ways to account for them: (1) they are the result of chance; or (2) the \Josephus" passage is actually a later Christian interpolation inluenced by Luke; or (3), the most interesting possibility, Josephus and Luke both based their descriptions on statements circulated by Jewish Christians during the years 80-90 C.E.
Please stop your monologues .
iskander
Posts: 2091
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: The Christian Forger and the Emmaus Narrative

Post by iskander »

Secret Alias wrote:Julius Africanus got permission to rebuild Emmaus as a memorial to the ending found in Luke:

...
Please explain the pdf
One conclusion of the pdf you had not read before posting

(3) Josephus and Luke may have used similar or identical sources in com-
posing their passages. This explanation appears to be the simplest. It not only
explains the series of coincidences, but it also goes a long way toward solving
a number of mysteries that have bothered commentators of the Testimonium.
iskander
Posts: 2091
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: The Christian Forger and the Emmaus Narrative

Post by iskander »

number2
(2) The coincidences may be due to a Christian interpolator who altered the
Testimonium, or forged it entire, under the in°uence of the Emmaus narrative.
This proposal has the weakness of supposing that a writer capable of imitating
Josephus' style and daring enough to alter his manuscript would at the same
time employ non-Josephan expressions and adhere rather closely to a New Tes-
tament text. A forger of the required skill should have been able to shake free
of such infuences.
Post Reply