The Pattern of Church Fathers Recycling Older Material

[John T]

Thanks. And we might want to also consider that this pattern of appropriation/forgery extends to the gospels. One of my first questions in this field was "how did Christians not notice that Matthew and Luke were forgeries of Mark?" Maybe that's the point. The synoptic pattern sanctified the act of forgery or if you will uncredited textual appropriation. Maybe it was intentional. Like a big billboard saying in essence "God is ok with this. " All of which makes the issue with Marcion perplexing. How do we know that God liked (from Irenaeus's POV) Mark's cutting of Matthew but not Marcion 's cutting? Odd that no one pointed out how arbitrary things were. Who decided the rules before the synod of 260ish CE?

What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

So, how do people not notice that American Heritage and Webster dictionaries have different definitions of the same word?
We can't trust Webster because Webster plagiarized his definitions from Johnson (1755) who sanctified the act of forgery by Cawdrey (1604) who gave us an uncredited textual appropriation of English words. Proving that all the writings of the Ante-Nicene Fathers are plagiarism of Irenaeus who lied about Marcion's repentance because they never wrote in English. Dittos for the gospels.

But then again, perhaps, just perhaps, the few church leaders skilled in rhetoric made a practice of (from respected sources) drawing up their own quick reference guide, cheat sheet, catalog, of known heresies of their time? That their students and/or rivals did the same and in good faith added tid-bits to the existing catalog?

It seems to me the better challenge would be to prove that the early Christian writers (e.g. Irenaeus, Tertullian, et al.) were making theological pronouncements from God every time they wrote instead of simply applying the rules of rhetoric to give a compare and contrast to their fellow Christians of heretical beliefs.

John T

[Secret Alias]

Harris considered that the agreements between Justin and Irenaeus were proof that both had made use of the same source, i.e. the hypothetical Book of Testimonies." It had however been suggested before Harris' theory was published that these agreements were probably due to Irenaeus having made use of Justin's writings.” This view has been particularly convincingly put by Robinson, in a comparison between Irenaeus' Demonstration and parallel passages in Justin." Robinson shows that Irenaeus not only took over Justin's OT quotations (which would of course leave open the possibility of both having made use of the same testimonia collection), but also took over formulations from Justin's own text. These investigations show that it is highly likely that Irenaeus' Demonstration contains material borrowed from Justin.” It is consequently likely that Irenaeus' Adversus haereses also makes use of Justin's OT quotations, particularly since Irenaeus himself admits on a number of occasions having quoted Justin in Adversus haereses.” https://books.google.com/books?id=qA2vC ... oQ6AEIJzAA

[Secret Alias]

"... in Adv. Marc. II (perhaps [comes from]) Theophilus (cf. G. Quispel, De bronnen van Tertullianus' Adversus Marcionem, 22/55)" https://books.google.com/books?id=X0miG ... kQ6AEIJzAA

[Secret Alias]

For his ideas about creation one might compare Tertullian Against Hermogenes, based on Theophilus, because the Genesis text is essentially the same https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... dBR9txwu-Q

[Secret Alias]

In two passages of AH 4, Irenaeus modifies Justin's imagery of the seeds of the Word being inseminated in men through their reading of Scripture https://books.google.com/books?id=XBLtI ... us&f=false

[Secret Alias]

Ad nationes is in parts a repetition of the Apologeticum https://books.google.com/books?id=DcczA ... QQ6AEIKTAB

[Secret Alias]

Apologeticum is a 'popular edition' of Ad Nationes https://books.google.com/books?id=4140A ... us&f=false

[Secret Alias]

Tertullian writes, 'Obsessam vociferantur civitatem; in agris, in castellis, in insulis Christianos; omnem sexum, aetatem, conditionem, etiam dignitatem, transgredi ad hoc nomen quasi detrimento incerent.' — ApoL ch. i. The same thing is repeated ' Ad Nationes,' ch. i., in almost the same words. https://books.google.com/books?id=W5DQn ... MQ6AEILjAB

[Secret Alias]

IT is necessary to consider the books ad Nationes and the Apologeticum together. These two treatises were written in the year 197 at a few months' interval:a precise allusions to the revolt of Albinus against Septimus Severus and to the reprisals which followed the defeat sustained by Albinus near Lyons on the 19th February, 197, enable us to give the priority to the ad Nationes. Besides, the ad Nationes, in more than one place, indicates the developments in the Apologeticum ; and in places where the same arguments are arrayed in both, it is in the Apologeticum that they are clothed in a more finished form. https://books.google.com/books?id=bb77A ... AQ6AEIJzAA

[Secret Alias]

23. R. M. Grant, "Theophilus of Antioch to Autolycus," Harvard Theological Review suggests that this commentary could have been a first draft of Theophilus' Adversus Hermogenem, which Eusebius (EH 4.24) mentioned ... K. Rudolph, in his Gnosis (San Francisco: Harper and Row, 1985), 325-26, offers this pithy summary regarding the notorious gnostic about whom both Hippolytus and Tertullian wrote treatises: "[The painter Hermogenes] was probably born in Antioch (in Syria) and, in about 180, the bishop of Antioch wrote a polemical tract against him which has not survived. Twenty years later Tertullian wrote against him in Carthage." https://books.google.com/books?id=6W5AD ... IQ6AEIJzAA