Re: Ancient notices of the differences between Matthew and Mark?
Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:21 pm
John is still fairly sudden in Mark, about as sudden as Jesus
Investigating the roots of western civilization (ye olde BC&H forum of IIDB lives on...)
https://earlywritings.com/forum/
Mark gives him the epithet, "the Baptist," which generally suffices to introduce somebody in an ancient text. In our extant version of Mark, he is also given an entire verse from Isaiah, but I am skeptical that this verse is original to Mark.perseusomega9 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:21 pm John is still fairly sudden in Mark, about as sudden as Jesus
Everything is difficult when it comes to Marcion.perseusomega9 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:38 pm Is part of the argument that Tertullian also lacks the epithet? I'll admit it's as clear as mud as anything in NT studies, but we have a range of interactions/accomodations between jesus and john groups in the literature can we really say which direction the dependency runs?
Good question. I imagine from published Marcion. But I am not sure.perseusomega9 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:10 pm Is Terts reading from unpublished Markion, published Markion, or what he thinks Markion says using GLuke
I agree that Mark is reworking an existing narrative; trouble is, I perceive Marcion to be reworking a previous narrative, as well, insofar as I am able to tell at all. And I am not sure how to pick an unpublished version from the published version.perseusomega9 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:34 pm Mark is reworking a previous narrative story, incorporating the messianic secret motif to explain why jesus IS also the Israelite messiah AND son of god. adding the empty tomb concept whereas previous resurrection stories ran the gamut of heavenly ascension of the initiate to witnessing jesus direct acension. Things along those lines.
The highlighted portion is interesting. Can you expand on that?perseusomega9 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:34 pm Mark is reworking a previous narrative story, incorporating the messianic secret motif to explain why jesus IS also the Israelite messiah AND son of god. adding the empty tomb concept whereas previous resurrection stories ran the gamut of heavenly ascension of the initiate to witnessing jesus direct acension. Things along those lines.
Is Markion reworking a tradition whose texts are hymn/liturgical books, various OT texts/apocrypha, and philosophic style debates, or a similar gospel style written narrative? Mark seems to be doing the latter. Markion may be creating this new style gospel, where our idea of gospel switches from a christian preaching/evangelism/revelation to this new concept of a narrative life of jesus.Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:39 pmI agree that Mark is reworking an existing narrative; trouble is, I perceive Marcion to be reworking a previous narrative, as well, insofar as I am able to tell at all. And I am not sure how to pick an unpublished version from the published version.perseusomega9 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:34 pm Mark is reworking a previous narrative story, incorporating the messianic secret motif to explain why jesus IS also the Israelite messiah AND son of god. adding the empty tomb concept whereas previous resurrection stories ran the gamut of heavenly ascension of the initiate to witnessing jesus direct acension. Things along those lines.