Chrestos in the Jewish Scriptures

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Secret Alias
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Chrestos in the Jewish Scriptures

Post by Secret Alias »

An overlooked 'christological' passage, used by Justin and Barnabas happens to be the earliest Chrestos reference I believe:

Δήσωμεν τὸν δίκαιον, ὅτι δύσχρηστος ἡµῖν ἐστίν (Isa 3:10)

The passage is read as if it predicted the Jewish mistreatment of Jesus at the crucifixion.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Giuseppe
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Re: Chrestos in the Jewish Scriptures

Post by Giuseppe »

See also dus-chrestos in Wisdom of Solomon 2:11.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
archibald
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Re: Chrestos in the Jewish Scriptures

Post by archibald »

Secret Alias wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:47 pm An overlooked 'christological' passage, used by Justin and Barnabas happens to be the earliest Chrestos reference I believe:

Δήσωμεν τὸν δίκαιον, ὅτι δύσχρηστος ἡµῖν ἐστίν (Isa 3:10)

The passage is read as if it predicted the Jewish mistreatment of Jesus at the crucifixion.
I'm having trouble locating that. Isaiah 3, v10?

"10 “Say to the righteous that it shall be well with them,
For they shall eat the fruit of their doings."
Last edited by archibald on Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
archibald
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Re: Chrestos in the Jewish Scriptures

Post by archibald »

Giuseppe wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:51 am See also dus-chrestos in Wisdom of Solomon 2:11.
From this (below), or have I got the wrong text?

Wisdom of Solomon, Chapter 2.

........."10: Let us oppress the righteous poor man; let us not spare the widow nor regard the gray
hairs of the aged.
11: But let our might be our law of right, for what is weak proves itself to be useless.
12: "Let us lie in wait for the righteous man, because he is inconvenient to us and opposes our
actions; he reproaches us for sins against the law, and accuses us of sins against our training.
13: He professes to have knowledge of God, and calls himself a child of the Lord.
14: He became to us a reproof of our thoughts;
15: the very sight of him is a burden to us, because his manner of life is unlike that of others,
and his ways are strange.
16: We are considered by him as something base, and he avoids our ways as unclean; he calls
the last end of the righteous happy, and boasts that God is his father.
17: Let us see if his words are true, and let us test what will happen at the end of his life;
18: for if the righteous man is God's son, he will help him, and will deliver him from the hand
of his adversaries.
19: Let us test him with insult and torture, that we may find out how gentle he is, and make
trial of his forbearance.
20: Let us condemn him to a shameful death, for, according to what he says, he will be
protected." .........."


http://www.gustoscholars.org/wefollowje ... olomon.PDF
archibald
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Re: Chrestos in the Jewish Scriptures

Post by archibald »

I guess I don't know which of the english words, in either text, translates to the Koine Greek chrestos. :(
Giuseppe
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Re: Chrestos in the Jewish Scriptures

Post by Giuseppe »

ops, I meant the verse 12:
"Let us lie in wait for the righteous man, because he is inconvenient [dus-chrestos] to us.
if the Just was not 'chrestos' for the evil people, then he was 'chrestos' for the good people.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
archibald
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Re: Chrestos in the Jewish Scriptures

Post by archibald »

Ok thanks.

So, when do you think W of S was written, by whom and where, and what do you think are the implications of it using that word (and sounding quite a bit like it's referring to a figure given that name/title, ie Jesus)?
Giuseppe
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Re: Chrestos in the Jewish Scriptures

Post by Giuseppe »

the “Wisdom of Solomon” was probably composed at Alexandria in the first century BCE.

Which implications? Nothing of different from the role played by the Suffering Servant in Isaiah.
Last edited by Giuseppe on Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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MrMacSon
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Re: Chrestos in the Jewish Scriptures

Post by MrMacSon »

archibald wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:56 am I guess I don't know which of the english words, in either text, translates to the Koine Greek chrestos.
χριστος (XPRISTOS) = Christos; generall means 'anointed'.

χρηστὸς (XPRESTOS) = Chrestos; generally means 'good', or 'useful' (often in the case of a slave). It can have been a name.

It's possible the two were mixed up or interchanged deliberately in some instances.

There are other versions of the greek.
archibald
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Re: Chrestos in the Jewish Scriptures

Post by archibald »

Giuseppe wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:50 am the “Wisdom of Solomon” was probably composed at Alexandria in the first century BCE.

Which implications? Nothing of different from the role played by the Suffering Servant in Isaiah.
No implications for the existence or non-existence of Jesus? You surprise me. :)

No but seriously (I am unfamiliar with this text, the W of S) but at first glance it reads like it describes him? And if it's 1st C, that is a lot more recent than Isaiah (8th C BCE?). W of S would actually be contemporaneous with the period of time (commonly) associated with Jesus, wouldn't it?
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