Kartagraphy Markoff. Did "Mark" Get Any Geography Right?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Steven Avery
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Richard Bauckham and the Decapolis

Post by Steven Avery »

Kunigunde Kreuzerin wrote: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:52 am
I was very curious about how Bauckham dealt with the famous problems of Mark 5:1 (Gerasa/Gadara) and Mark 7:31 (the way from Tyre via Sidon to the Sea of Galilee in the midst of the Decapolis). But he preferred the minor variant „Gergesa“ (an unknown town) at Mark 5:1 and did not comment on Mark 7:31. This is a little disappointing.
Most problematic is his definition of the Decapolis:

"There is also a reference to 'the region of the Decapolis,' a vague reference to the land that lay beyond the lake from Gergesa southwards."
https://books.google.com/books?id=kMvLDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA12
https://web.archive.org/web/20140912031 ... Denver.pdf

Decapolis is a large region consisting of ten cities, and went north to Damascus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decapolis

Matthew 4:25 (AV)
And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee,
and from Decapolis,
and from Jerusalem,
and from Judaea,
and from beyond Jordan.

Mark 5:20 (AV)
And he departed,
and began to publish in Decapolis how great things Jesus had done for him: and all men did marvel.

Mark 7:31 (AV)
And again, departing from the coasts of Tyre and Sidon,
he came unto the sea of Galilee,
through the midst of the coasts of Decapolis.
Steven Avery
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Origen quotes Mark "Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee"

Post by Steven Avery »

JoeWallack wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:15 am
14 - Origen gives a detailed commentary on the contradiction between the Synoptics and GJohn regarding where Jesus went after the baptism but makes no mention of such an issue regarding where Jesus came from for the baptism.
...
Really the evidence above indicates that there was no evidence through the 3rd century that GMark originally had "Nazareth" in 1:9. The simple explanation for why there is no related Patristic reference here to Nazareth in 1:9 and all related Patristic references indicate Jesus' Nazareth was in Judea is that there were no/few manuscripts through the 3rd century that had "Nazareth"
...
You should check more carefully.

Origen's Commentary on the Gospel of John.
Book VI.
Of the Conversation Between John and Jesus at the Baptism, Recorded by Matthew Only.
https://www.catholiccrossreference.onli ... Mark%201:9
see also
https://books.google.com/books?id=ApMsAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA376

John the disciple does not tell us where the Saviour comes from to John the Baptist, but we learn this from Matthew, who writes: “Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan to John, to be baptized of him.” And Mark adds the place in Galilee; he says, “And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in Jordan.”

It would be hard for Origen to be much clearer.
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JoeWallack
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J Street Jay Walkers

Post by JoeWallack »

StephenGoranson wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:14 am There may have been more than one definition of Judaea. From a note (1997):

"The part of Judaea adjoining Syria is called Galilee, and that next to
Arabia and Egypt Peraea," according to Pliny N.H. V.70, who then listed the
ten toparchies within the area that *we today* usually think of as being
Judaea.
This raises the question of which sense of Judaea (the larger or
smaller area) is meant by various other ancient writers (and their
sources). For instance, when Gabinius, Governor of Syria from 57-55 BCE,
created five synhedria and installed an overseer (epimeletes) in each one,
Josephus refers to the epimeletes of Sepphoris, Galilee as a Judaean
epimeletes (Ant 14.127, 139). [....]

[Related: "Rereading Pliny on the Essenes:
Some Bibliographic Notes"]
Judea Judea Judea

JW:
I think the underlying factor is time. What geographical area was meant by "Judea" at different times
or specifically here not too far before or after the supposed Gospel time. In the context of the Gospel
narrative there is an important distinction between Judea and Galilee. Therefore, for a Gospeller/Manuscript to say
Nazareth was in Judea communicates to the reader that it was not in Galilee. Likewise for commentators commenting
within the context of the Gospels. On the other hand, before Jesus supposed time it was all part of Herod's Kingdom
and more importantly for our purposes here, after Jesus' supposed time, it was all referred to as Judea (sometimes).

So, for a commentator, not commenting within the context of the Gospels, and especially after Jesus' supposed time,
they may very well have said Nazareth was a town in Judea. It may also be an anachronism issue whereby Patristics
are commenting within the context of the Gospels but in their time there is no longer a legal distinction between Galilee
and Judea.


Joseph

J is a consonant in English, but some nations use it as a vowel— than which nothing could be more absurd. Its original form, which has been but slightly modified, was that of the tail of a subdued dog, and it was not a letter but a character, standing for a Latin verb, jacere, "to throw," because when a stone is thrown at a dog the dog's tail assumes that shape. This is the origin of the letter, as expounded by the renowned Dr. Jocolpus Bumer, of the University of Belgrade, who established his conclusions on the subject in a work of three quarto volumes and committed suicide on being reminded that the j in the Roman alphabet had originally no curl.

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JoeWallack
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Re: Black Sabbath Opens For Nazareth

Post by JoeWallack »

Steven Avery wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:23 pm
JoeWallack wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 5:27 pm 11 - e-catena commentary on 3:21 - no mention of Nazareth.
...
13 - e-catena GJohn - Obsession with "the lamb of god". No mentions of Nazareth of Galilee.
Usually much better than e-catena:

Mark 3:21
https://www.catholiccrossreference.onli ... ark%203:21
Schmuelman!

Riiight [see how easy that was?]. Ben Smith pointed this out years ago. Speaking of Ben Smith I'll be conducting
a seance at The Emily Morgan hotel on Halloween 2022 in Room 1408 to try and contact Ben. Everyone is
welcome to attend except Harvey Dubish.


Joseph

Panarion - The Necronomicon of Eldritch Church Elders

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