"And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you [PAGANS] believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter."
- Justin Martyr, The First Apology, XXI (around 150 CE)
"The Gospels are neither histories nor biographies, even within the ancient tolerances for those genres."
- Dr. John Dominic Crossan
"...Christian scholars over the centuries have admitted that ... "there are parallels between the Mysteries and Christianity"1 and that "the miracle stories of the Gospels do in fact parallel literary forms found in pagan and Jewish miracle stories,"2 "...According to Form Criticism the Gospels are more like folklore and myth than historical fact."3
1. Metzger, HLS, 8.
2. Meier, II, 536.
3. Geisler, CA, 320.
- Who Was Jesus?, 259
"The only definite account of his life and teachings is contained in the four Gospels of the New Testament, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. All other historical records of the time are silent about him. The brief mentions of Jesus in the writings of Josephus, Tacitus and Suetonius have been generally regarded as not genuine and as Christian interpolations; in Jewish writings there is no report about Jesus that has historical value. Some scholars have even gone so far as to hold that the entire Jesus story is a myth…"
the pagans believed that the blood of thier children atoned
the jews believed that animal blood atoned
the christian god got inspired by this and decided to create blood and flesh for himself.
i dont understand how giving up his own created flesh cooled him off. what is achieved when one puts his sins on a chicken and slices the chickens kneck? how does the act affect the world of the spirit?
yhwh said that he doesnt like prayers with bloody hands
"i will not hear you no matter hom many 'prayers' you say"
"because your hands are covered with blood"
so why did the christian god allow christians to carry his bloody cross?
I find it undeniable that many of the epic heroes and ancient patriarchs and matriarchs of the Old Testament were personified stars, planets, and constellations...
"...Second, for Egyptian influence to have become integral to Israelite religion even from pre-biblical times is only natural given the fact that from 3000 BCE Egypt ruled Canaan. We are not talking about some far-fetched borrowing from an alien cultural sphere. The tale of Joseph and his brethren is already transparently a retelling of Osiris and Set. The New Testament Lazarus story is another (Mary and Martha playing Isis and Nephthys). And so is the story of Jesus (Mary Magdalene and the others as Isis and Nephthys). Jesus (in the “Johannine Thunderbolt” passage, Matthew 11:27//Luke 10:21) sounds like he’s quoting Akhenaten’s Hymn to the Sun. Jesus sacramentally offers bread as his body, wine as his blood, just as Osiris offered his blood in the form of beer, his flesh as bread. Judas is Set, who betrays him. Mourning women seek for his body. The anointing in Bethany (“Leave her alone! She has saved the ointment for my burial!”) is a misplaced continuation of the women bringing the spices to the tomb, where they would raise Jesus with the stuff, as Isis raised Osiris. In fact, Jesus “Christ” makes more sense as Jesus “the Resurrected One” than as “Jesus the Davidic Scion.” In the ritual reenactments, three days separate the death and the resurrection. Jesus appears on earth briefly, then retires to the afterworld to become the judge of the living and the dead—just as Osiris does.
Osiris is doubly resurrected as his son Horus, too, and he, too, is eventually raised from the dead by Isis. He is pictured as spanning the dome of heaven, his arms stretched out in a cruciform pattern. As such, he seems to represent the common Platonic astronomical symbol of the sun’s path crossing the earth’s ecliptic. Likewise, the Acts of John remembers that the real cross of Jesus is not some piece of wood, as fools think, but rather the celestial “Cross of Light.” Acharya S. ventures that “the creators of the Christ myth did not simply take an already formed story, scratch out the name Osiris or Horus, and replace it with Jesus” (p. 25). But I am pretty much ready to go the whole way and suggest that Jesus is simply Osiris going under a new name, Jesus,” Savior,” hitherto an epithet, but made into a name on Jewish soil. Are there allied mythemes (details, really) that look borrowed from the cults of Attis, Dionysus, etc.? Sure; remember we are talking about a heavily syncretistic context. Hadian remarked on how Jewish and Christian leaders in Egypt mixed their worship with that of Sarapis (=Osiris)...
I find myself in full agreement with Acharya S/D.M. Murdock
So that's all you have to say. I wish it was enough when I developed a thesis to merely post the kind things that Bob said about me. Sadly the world expects more than that ...
stephan happy huller wrote:
So based on this Judaism = paganism.
Surely modern anthropology has done away with the old dualism that distinguished proper Abrahamic religion from inferior paganism. Judaism was one of many religions in the Hellenistic world, and they were all syncretistic to some degree.
Maximos, why do you think pagan parallels are the Archilles Heel of Christianity? Can you give the clearest case of a pagan parallel which represents the strongest one as an Archilles Heel? Please give an exact example, rather than a wall of text.
It is really important, in life, to concentrate our minds on our enthusiasms, not on our dislikes. -- Roger Pearse
Tenorikuma wrote:
Surely modern anthropology has done away with the old dualism that distinguished proper Abrahamic religion from inferior paganism. Judaism was one of many religions in the Hellenistic world, and they were all syncretistic to some degree.
No, Judaism and Christianity were hermetically sealed from all outside influences.
This is one of the most well-established facts in mainstream Biblical studies.
It is not clear to me whether you are being serious here or not.
No question that a lot of effort has been made by many critics to "erect a fence" around torah and/or Judea-Christian theology, in an effort to remove any possibility of syncretic "contamination" of the pure faith. So far, I believe these efforts have been largely self serving.
DCH
stevencarrwork wrote:
Tenorikuma wrote:
Surely modern anthropology has done away with the old dualism that distinguished proper Abrahamic religion from inferior paganism. Judaism was one of many religions in the Hellenistic world, and they were all syncretistic to some degree.
No, Judaism and Christianity were hermetically sealed from all outside influences.
This is one of the most well-established facts in mainstream Biblical studies.
