Paul only / Damascus chronology

[gryan]

Galatians 1:13-14
[2 Cor 11:31-33]
Galatians 1:15-19

For you have heard of my former way of life in Judaism, how severely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers.
[The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, who is forever worthy of praise, knows that I am not lying. In Damascus, the governor under King Aretas secured the city of the Damascenes in order to arrest me. And I was lowered in a basket through a window in the wall and escaped his grasp.]
But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by His grace, was pleased to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not consult immediately with flesh and blood (i.e. James, the Lord's flesh and blood brother), nor did I go up [immediately] to Jerusalem to the apostles who came before me, but I went [immediately] to Arabia--indeed I returned back [immediately] to Damascus.
Only after three years did I go up to Jerusalem to confer with Cephas, and I stayed with him fifteen days. But, of the apostles, I saw no qualitatively different one (translation my own) except James, the Lord’s brother. I assure you before God that what I am writing to you is no lie.

----------

I'm impressed how well 2 Cor 11:31-33 fits when it is spliced into Galatians like this. Damascus is of course understood to be a city in the region of Arabia: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8631

Acts makes no mention of Aretas or Arabia. But Acts provides support for the claim that after his experience of revelation, Paul went [immediately] to Damascus:

"And I said, ‘What shall I do, Lord?’ And the Lord said to me, ‘Rise, and go to Damascus, and there you will be told all that is appointed for you to do.’" (Acts 22:10)

[DCHindley]

This was how I worked out the parallels
in 2/28/2021.

Historical info of Paul found in his Epistles (All citations are RSV, some slightly modified)	Parallels to Acts RSV
GAL 1:13 For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God violently and tried to destroy it; 14 and I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers. … 15 But when it pleased God ... 16a to reveal 16c to me that I might declare <his> 16e "good news" among the Gentiles, I did not confer with flesh and blood,	ACT 7:58 Then they cast him out of the city and stoned him; and the witnesses laid down their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul. 8:1 And Saul was consenting to his death. And on that day a great persecution arose against the church in Jerusalem; and they were all scattered throughout the region of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. ... 3 But Saul was ravaging the church, and entering house after house, he dragged off men and women and committed them to prison. ... 9:1 But Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
2 COR 12:2a I know a man ... 2c who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven--whether in (the) body I do not know, or outside of (the) body I do not know, God knows. 3 And I know that this man was caught up into Paradise--whether in (the) body or apart from (the) body I do not know, God knows--4 and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter.)	ACT 9:3 Now as he journeyed he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed about him. 4 And he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" 5 And he said, "Who are you, Lord?" And he said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting; 6 but rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do." 7 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one. 8 Saul arose from the ground; and when his eyes were opened, he could see nothing; so they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus. 9 And for three days he was without sight, and neither ate nor drank. 10 Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, "Ananias." And he said, "Here I am, Lord." 11 And the Lord said to him, "Rise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judas for a man of Tarsus named Saul; for behold, he is praying, 12 and he has seen a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight." 13 But Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to thy saints at Jerusalem; 14 and here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call upon thy name." 15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; 16 for I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name." 17 So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came, has sent me that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized, 19a and took food and was strengthened. 19b For several days he was with the disciples at Damascus.
GAL 1:17a nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia;	NO RECORD (Possibly ACTS 9:20 And in the synagogues [of Arabia?] immediately he proclaimed Jesus, saying, "He is the Son of God." 21 And all who heard him were amazed, and said, "Is not this the man who made havoc in Jerusalem of those who called on this name? And he has come here for this purpose, to bring them bound before the chief priests.")
GAL 1:17b and again I returned to Damascus.	ACT 9:22 But Saul increased all the more in strength, and confounded the Jews who lived in Damascus ...
2 COR 11:32 At Damascus, the governor under King Aretas guarded the city of Damascus in order to seize me, 33 but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall, and escaped his hands.	ACT 9:23 When many days had passed, the Jews plotted to kill him, 24 but their plot became known to Saul. They were watching the gates day and night, to kill him; 25 but his disciples took him by night and let him down over the wall, lowering him in a basket.
GAL 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas, and remained with him fifteen days.19a But I saw none of the other apostles except James ... . 20 (In what I am writing to you, before God, I do not lie!)	ACT 9:26 And when he had come to Jerusalem he attempted to join the disciples; and they were all afraid of him, for they did not believe that he was a disciple. 27 But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared to them how on the road he had seen the Lord, who spoke to him, and how at Damascus he had preached boldly in the name of Jesus. 28 So he went in and out among them at Jerusalem,
GAL 1:21 Then I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia.22a And I was still not known by sight to the churches ... 22c in Judea;23 they only heard it said, "He who once persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy."24 And they glorified God because of me.	ACT 9:29 preaching boldly in the name of the Lord. And he spoke and disputed against the Hellenists; but they were seeking to kill him. 30 And when the brethren knew it, they brought him down to Caesarea, and sent him off to Tarsus.
NO RECORD (Possibly GAL 2:1 Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along with me. 2 I went up by revelation; and I laid before them (but privately before those who were of repute) the good news which I preach among the Gentiles, lest somehow I should be running or had run in vain. 3 But even Titus, who was with me, was not compelled to be circumcised, though he was a Greek, 4a (in spite of false brethren secretly brought in, who slipped in to spy out our freedom which we have ... 4c in order to bring us into bondage, 5 to whom we did not yield submission even for a moment, that the truth of the good news might be preserved for you).	ACT 11:27 Now in these days prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. 28 And one of them named Agabus stood up and foretold by the Spirit that there would be a great famine over all the world; and this took place in the days of Claudius. 29 And the disciples determined, every one according to his ability, to send relief to the brethren who lived in Judea; 30 and they did so, sending it to the elders by the hand of Barnabas and Saul.; ACT 12:25 And Barnabas and Saul returned from Jerusalem when they had fulfilled their mission, bringing with them John whose other name was Mark.
GAL 2:6 And from those who were reputed to be something (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)--those, I say, who were of repute added nothing to me; 7a but on the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the good news to the uncircumcised, ... 9 and when they perceived the grace that was given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised; 10 only they would have us remember the Poor, which very thing I was eager to do.	ACT 15:13 After they finished speaking, James replied, "Brethren, listen to me. 14 Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, as it is written, 16 'After this I will return, and I will rebuild the dwelling of David, which has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will set it up, 17 that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, 18 says the Lord, who has made these things known from of old.' 19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them to abstain from the pollutions of idols and from unchastity and from what is strangled and from blood. ACT 15:21 For from early generations Moses has had in every city those who preach him, for he is read every sabbath in the synagogues." 22 Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren, 23 with the following letter: "The brethren, both the apostles and the elders, to the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greeting. 24 Since we have heard that some persons from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, 25 it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from unchastity. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell."
GAL 2:11 But when Cephas came to Antioch I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he ate with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. 13 And with him the rest of the Jews acted insincerely, so that even Barnabas was carried away by their insincerity. 14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the good news, I said to Cephas before them all, "If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?"	NO RECORD (Possibly ACT 14:26 and from there they sailed to Antioch, where they had been commended to the grace of God for the work which they had fulfilled. 27 And when they arrived, they gathered the church together and declared all that God had done with them, and how he had opened a door of faith to the Gentiles. 28 And they remained no little time with the disciples. ACT 15:1 But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved." 2 And when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question.
2 COR 11:24a Five times I have received at the hands of the Jews the forty lashes less one.	NO RECORD
2 COR 11:25 Three times I have been beaten with rods;	ACT 16:22-24 (One single beating with rods)
2 COR 11:24b once I was stoned.	NO RECORD
2 COR 11:24c Three times I have been shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been adrift at sea;	ACT 27:6 There the centurion found a ship of Alexandria sailing for Italy, and put us on board. ... 27:41 But striking a shoal they ran the vessel aground; the bow stuck and remained immovable, and the stern was broken up by the surf. 42 The soldiers' plan was to kill the prisoners, lest any should swim away and escape; 43 but the centurion, wishing to save Paul, kept them from carrying out their purpose. He ordered those who could swim to throw themselves overboard first and make for the land, 44 and the rest on planks or on pieces of the ship. And so it was that all escaped to land.
2 COR 11:32 At Damascus, the governor under King Aretas guarded the city of Damascus in order to seize me,33 but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall, and escaped his hands.	ACT 9:23 When many days had passed, the Jews plotted to kill him, 24 but their plot became known to Saul. They were watching the gates day and night, to kill him; 25 but his disciples took him by night and let him down over the wall, lowering him in a basket.
2 COR 12:2a I know a man ... 2c who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven--whether in (the) body I do not know, or outside of (the) body I do not know, God knows. 3 And I know that this man was caught up into Paradise--whether in (the) body or apart from (the) body I do not know, God knows--4 and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter.	See above
2 COR 12:7 And to keep me from being too elated by the abundance of revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to harass me, to keep me from being too elated. 8a Three times I besought (God) ... 8c about this, that it should leave me; 9a but he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness."	GAL 4:13 you know it was because of a bodily ailment that I preached the good news to you at first;14a and though my condition was a trial to you, you did not scorn or despise me, but received me as an angel of God,

[gryan]

This was how I worked out the parallels
in 2/28/2021. [/tr]

2 COR 11:32 At Damascus, the governor under King Aretas guarded the city of Damascus in order to seize me, 33 but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall, and escaped his hands.	ACT 9:23 When many days had passed, the Jews plotted to kill him, 24 but their plot became known to Saul. They were watching the gates day and night, to kill him; 25 but his disciples took him by night and let him down over the wall, lowering him in a basket.

In my reconstruction, the author of Acts took the basket-escape-from-Damascus motif from Paul's narration of an event (escape from capture by the governor under Aretas with no mention of the reason) before his conversion and used it to spice up an entirely different story (escape from Jews who wanted to kill him for preaching Jesus) after his conversion.

The mention of "his disciples" in Acts is odd since the phrase οἱ μαθηταὶ αὐτοῦ is normally used in the NT in reference to the disciples of Jesus. I wonder if that phrase might fit better in a description of Saul's life before his conversion (since according to Acts, he had helpers with him--"his disciples" perhaps--when he was blinded by the light).

Here are the two stories (both involving escape from Damascus in a basket) with differences underlined:

Acts
22But Saul was empowered all the more, and he confounded the Jews living in Damascus by proving that Jesus is the Christ.
23After many days had passed, the Jews conspired to kill him, 24but Saul learned of their plot. Day and night they watched the city gates in order to kill him. 25One night, however, his disciples (οἱ μαθηταὶ αὐτοῦ) took him and lowered him in a basket through a window in the wall.

Corinthians
32In Damascus, the governor under King Aretas secured the city of the Damascenes in order to arrest me. 33But I was lowered (by whom?) in a basket through a window in the wall and escaped his grasp.

[gryan]

This was how I worked out the parallels
in 2/28/2021.

Historical info of Paul found in his Epistles (All citations are RSV, some slightly modified)	Parallels to Acts RSV
GAL 1:13 For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God violently and tried to destroy it; 14 and I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers. … 15 But when it pleased God ... 16a to reveal 16c to me that I might declare <his> 16e "good news" among the Gentiles, I did not confer with flesh and blood,	ACT 7:58 Then they cast him out of the city and stoned him; and the witnesses laid down their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul. 8:1 And Saul was consenting to his death. And on that day a great persecution arose against the church in Jerusalem; and they were all scattered throughout the region of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. ... 3 But Saul was ravaging the church, and entering house after house, he dragged off men and women and committed them to prison. ... 9:1 But Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
2 COR 12:2a I know a man ... 2c who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven--whether in (the) body I do not know, or outside of (the) body I do not know, God knows. 3 And I know that this man was caught up into Paradise--whether in (the) body or apart from (the) body I do not know, God knows--4 and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter.)	ACT 9:3 Now as he journeyed he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed about him. 4 And he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" 5 And he said, "Who are you, Lord?" And he said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting; 6 but rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do." 7 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one. 8 Saul arose from the ground; and when his eyes were opened, he could see nothing; so they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus. 9 And for three days he was without sight, and neither ate nor drank. 10 Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, "Ananias." And he said, "Here I am, Lord." 11 And the Lord said to him, "Rise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judas for a man of Tarsus named Saul; for behold, he is praying, 12 and he has seen a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight." 13 But Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to thy saints at Jerusalem; 14 and here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call upon thy name." 15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; 16 for I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name." 17 So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came, has sent me that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized, 19a and took food and was strengthened. 19b For several days he was with the disciples at Damascus.
GAL 1:17a nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia;	NO RECORD (Possibly ACTS 9:20 And in the synagogues [of Arabia?] immediately he proclaimed Jesus, saying, "He is the Son of God." 21 And all who heard him were amazed, and said, "Is not this the man who made havoc in Jerusalem of those who called on this name? And he has come here for this purpose, to bring them bound before the chief priests.")
GAL 1:17b and again I returned to Damascus.	ACT 9:22 But Saul increased all the more in strength, and confounded the Jews who lived in Damascus ...
2 COR 11:32 At Damascus, the governor under King Aretas guarded the city of Damascus in order to seize me, 33 but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall, and escaped his hands.	ACT 9:23 When many days had passed, the Jews plotted to kill him, 24 but their plot became known to Saul. They were watching the gates day and night, to kill him; 25 but his disciples took him by night and let him down over the wall, lowering him in a basket.
GAL 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas, and remained with him fifteen days.19a But I saw none of the other apostles except James ... . 20 (In what I am writing to you, before God, I do not lie!)	ACT 9:26 And when he had come to Jerusalem he attempted to join the disciples; and they were all afraid of him, for they did not believe that he was a disciple. 27 But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared to them how on the road he had seen the Lord, who spoke to him, and how at Damascus he had preached boldly in the name of Jesus. 28 So he went in and out among them at Jerusalem,
GAL 1:21 Then I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia.22a And I was still not known by sight to the churches ... 22c in Judea;23 they only heard it said, "He who once persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy."24 And they glorified God because of me.	ACT 9:29 preaching boldly in the name of the Lord. And he spoke and disputed against the Hellenists; but they were seeking to kill him. 30 And when the brethren knew it, they brought him down to Caesarea, and sent him off to Tarsus.
NO RECORD (Possibly GAL 2:1 Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along with me. 2 I went up by revelation; and I laid before them (but privately before those who were of repute) the good news which I preach among the Gentiles, lest somehow I should be running or had run in vain. 3 But even Titus, who was with me, was not compelled to be circumcised, though he was a Greek, 4a (in spite of false brethren secretly brought in, who slipped in to spy out our freedom which we have ... 4c in order to bring us into bondage, 5 to whom we did not yield submission even for a moment, that the truth of the good news might be preserved for you).	ACT 11:27 Now in these days prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. 28 And one of them named Agabus stood up and foretold by the Spirit that there would be a great famine over all the world; and this took place in the days of Claudius. 29 And the disciples determined, every one according to his ability, to send relief to the brethren who lived in Judea; 30 and they did so, sending it to the elders by the hand of Barnabas and Saul.; ACT 12:25 And Barnabas and Saul returned from Jerusalem when they had fulfilled their mission, bringing with them John whose other name was Mark.
GAL 2:6 And from those who were reputed to be something (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)--those, I say, who were of repute added nothing to me; 7a but on the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the good news to the uncircumcised, ... 9 and when they perceived the grace that was given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised; 10 only they would have us remember the Poor, which very thing I was eager to do.	ACT 15:13 After they finished speaking, James replied, "Brethren, listen to me. 14 Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, as it is written, 16 'After this I will return, and I will rebuild the dwelling of David, which has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will set it up, 17 that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, 18 says the Lord, who has made these things known from of old.' 19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them to abstain from the pollutions of idols and from unchastity and from what is strangled and from blood. ACT 15:21 For from early generations Moses has had in every city those who preach him, for he is read every sabbath in the synagogues." 22 Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren, 23 with the following letter: "The brethren, both the apostles and the elders, to the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greeting. 24 Since we have heard that some persons from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, 25 it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from unchastity. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell."
GAL 2:11 But when Cephas came to Antioch I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he ate with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. 13 And with him the rest of the Jews acted insincerely, so that even Barnabas was carried away by their insincerity. 14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the good news, I said to Cephas before them all, "If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?"	NO RECORD (Possibly ACT 14:26 and from there they sailed to Antioch, where they had been commended to the grace of God for the work which they had fulfilled. 27 And when they arrived, they gathered the church together and declared all that God had done with them, and how he had opened a door of faith to the Gentiles. 28 And they remained no little time with the disciples. ACT 15:1 But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved." 2 And when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question.
2 COR 11:24a Five times I have received at the hands of the Jews the forty lashes less one.	NO RECORD
2 COR 11:25 Three times I have been beaten with rods;	ACT 16:22-24 (One single beating with rods)
2 COR 11:24b once I was stoned.	NO RECORD
2 COR 11:24c Three times I have been shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been adrift at sea;	ACT 27:6 There the centurion found a ship of Alexandria sailing for Italy, and put us on board. ... 27:41 But striking a shoal they ran the vessel aground; the bow stuck and remained immovable, and the stern was broken up by the surf. 42 The soldiers' plan was to kill the prisoners, lest any should swim away and escape; 43 but the centurion, wishing to save Paul, kept them from carrying out their purpose. He ordered those who could swim to throw themselves overboard first and make for the land, 44 and the rest on planks or on pieces of the ship. And so it was that all escaped to land.
2 COR 11:32 At Damascus, the governor under King Aretas guarded the city of Damascus in order to seize me,33 but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall, and escaped his hands.	ACT 9:23 When many days had passed, the Jews plotted to kill him, 24 but their plot became known to Saul. They were watching the gates day and night, to kill him; 25 but his disciples took him by night and let him down over the wall, lowering him in a basket.
2 COR 12:2a I know a man ... 2c who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven--whether in (the) body I do not know, or outside of (the) body I do not know, God knows. 3 And I know that this man was caught up into Paradise--whether in (the) body or apart from (the) body I do not know, God knows--4 and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter.	See above
2 COR 12:7 And to keep me from being too elated by the abundance of revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to harass me, to keep me from being too elated. 8a Three times I besought (God) ... 8c about this, that it should leave me; 9a but he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness."	GAL 4:13 you know it was because of a bodily ailment that I preached the good news to you at first;14a and though my condition was a trial to you, you did not scorn or despise me, but received me as an angel of God,

@DCHindley

This is a pretty standard list of parallels. You don't appear to be interacting with any of the specifics of my argument in this long thread. Just curious: Have I persuaded you with any bit of my argument in this thread? I'm guessing not, given the content of this repost of something you wrote in 2021, but I just wanted to check.

[DCHindley]

gryan,

The main point of my ... er ... point, was that the parallels are a lot shakier than they might first appear, if we look at the actual parallels.

I would ask,
*What is an "Ethnarch?" Was it used other than to describe Archelaeus?
*I'd ask what the connection was between king Aretas (pick one) and Antipas?

If Paul was a Herodian retainer as Eisenman proposed (and I think this has a lot of merit), then I think that the animosity of a local Nabatean civic leader towards him is understandable. Antipas had divorced his wife, who was the daughter of Aretas IV, and around 37 CE Aretas sent his army to Perea and kicked Antipas' army's ass. That had to smart!

After that military success against Antipas, in Nabatean dominated areas, including Damascus, retainers of Antipas could get caught up in revenge politics: Roadblocks manned by Nabatean militia, checking everybody's papers, with the "suspicious" ones detained to be used as pawns (OK, hostages) in local politics. Damascus was semi autonomous, but had its connection to politics in the areas governed by Philip. These areas were later shifted to Agrippa I around 40 CE, IIRC. Agrippa & Antipas were bitter rivals. Antipas considered Agrippa to be a weakling, who could not handle his duties when he gave him local administrative assignments for a period.

Agrippa's own sister, who was Antipas' wife, thought Agrippa was unworthy of his successes, and that those territories formerly controlled by Philip, should have been granted to Antipas, who according to Morten Hørning Jensen was doing a pretty good job, and he was out. When at his wife's insistence he petitioned the emperor to reconsider, it backfired on him, and Antipas loses everything he had worked so hard for. Agrippa was able to present evidence that Antipas was building up his supply of arms as if aspiring for a grander Judean kingdom, maybe not with Rome's permission or with Parthian support, and he was out in the cold. His wife went into exile with Antipas, rather than abandon him.

Ethnarchs were a common but not universally used title for someone granted authority over an ethnic group, usually tribal. It was used of appointed leaders in the case of Jews (Archaelus), the Balkans, but it was also sometimes used for the leader of the Jewish faction in Alexandria, who certainly was not an independent leader. He was appointed by the Romans.

[gryan]

gryan,
The main point of my ... er ... point, was that the parallels are a lot shakier than they might first appear, if we look at the actual parallels.

I would ask,
*What is an "Ethnarch?" Was it used other than to describe Archelaeus?
*I'd ask what the connection was between king Aretas (pick one) and Antipas?

If Paul was a Herodian retainer as Eisenman proposed (and I think this has a lot of merit), then I think that the animosity of a local Nabatean civic leader towards him is understandable. Antipas had divorced his wife, who was the daughter of Aretas IV, and around 37 CE Aretas sent his army to Perea and kicked Antipas' army's ass. That had to smart!

After that military success against Antipas, in Nabatean dominated areas, including Damascus, retainers of Antipas could get caught up in revenge politics: Roadblocks manned by Nabatean militia, checking everybody's papers, with the "suspicious" ones detained to be used as pawns (OK, hostages) in local politics. Damascus was semi autonomous, but had its connection to politics in the areas governed by Philip. These areas were later shifted to Agrippa I around 40 CE, IIRC. Agrippa & Antipas were bitter rivals. Antipas considered Agrippa to be a weakling, who could not handle his duties when he gave him local administrative assignments for a period.

Agrippa's own sister, who was Antipas' wife, thought Agrippa was unworthy of his successes, and that those territories formerly controlled by Philip, should have been granted to Antipas, who according to Morten Hørning Jensen was doing a pretty good job, and he was out. When at his wife's insistence he petitioned the emperor to reconsider, it backfired on him, and Antipas loses everything he had worked so hard for. Agrippa was able to present evidence that Antipas was building up his supply of arms as if aspiring for a grander Judean kingdom, maybe not with Rome's permission or with Parthian support, and he was out in the cold. His wife went into exile with Antipas, rather than abandon him.

Ethnarchs were a common but not universally used title for someone granted authority over an ethnic group, usually tribal. It was used of appointed leaders in the case of Jews (Archaelus), the Balkans, but it was also sometimes used for the leader of the Jewish faction in Alexandria, who certainly was not an independent leader. He was appointed by the Romans.

DCHindley,

That is information I was not aware of with anywhere near the specificity that you have offered, but I see that what you say is similar to what is reported on Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_Archelaus

I don't think I'm in a position to quibble with you about any of what you said. Given what you know about the surrounding political context, I'd like to hear your take on my paradigm-breaking reconstruction of what Paul was saying here:

Galatians 1:13-14
[2 Cor 11:31-33]
Galatians 1:15-19

For you have heard of my former way of life in Judaism, how severely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers.
[The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, who is forever worthy of praise, knows that I am not lying. In Damascus, the governor under King Aretas secured the city of the Damascenes in order to arrest me. And I was lowered in a basket through a window in the wall and escaped his grasp.]
But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by His grace, was pleased to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not consult immediately with flesh and blood (i.e. James, the Lord's flesh-and-blood brother), nor did I go up [immediately] to Jerusalem to the apostles who came before me, but I went [immediately] to Arabia--indeed I returned back [immediately] to Damascus. (cf. "Go to Damascus", Acts 22:10).
Only after three years did I go up to Jerusalem to confer with Cephas, and I stayed with him fifteen days. But, of the apostles, I saw no qualitatively different one (translation my own) except James, the Lord’s brother. I assure you before God that what I am writing to you is no lie.

-----------

I'd like to hear your response to my interpretations of these texts (From Gal and Cor) which I presume to be written by Paul and which dovetail together nicely. My argument is that "you have heard of my former way of life in Judaism" would have included prior Galatian common knowledge of Paul's/Saul's escape-from-Damascus-under-Aretas story (as a prelude to Paul's/Saul's conversion).

The Galatians may not have all known that he "returned back" to Damascus immediately; especially if they had been misinformed by Christ-following "Judaizers" that the very first thing Saul/Paul did after his conversion was to go to Jerusalem to see the apostles (cf. Acts 9:26) and to consult submissively with the leader of the "Judaizers" --James, the Lord's flesh-and-blood brother (a "qualitatively different" apostle, i.e. in Paul's view, a "false apostle"cf. 2 Cor 11:13, the leader of "some from James [the Lord's brother]" (who frightened Cephas/Peter, Gal 2:12).

The Lord's Brother named "James"--"James the Less", Mark 6:3, 15:40--was erased from Luke-Acts. The Lord's brother ought not to be confused with the "recognized pillar", James [son of Alphaeus], who supported Paul's mission to the Gentiles, Gal 1:9, cf Acts 15:13.

I know that those are a lot of exegetical changes to take in! But you are not new to my exegetical process. You've been watching my close re-readings take shape over the years. From where you sit, is the current shape of my argument persuasive? Any bit of it?

Or, to re-frame my question to you: If my alternative interpretations of the primary texts in question (Gal and Cor) were correct, what would the implications be?

[gryan]

2 Corinthians 11 is about God helping and sustaining Paul in his Christian ministry despite Paul's weakness.
It is unlikely Paul would include here a misadventure from his pre-Christian days.

Andrew Criddle

Thanks, Andrew Criddle,

I'm persuaded. It has become apparent to me that the basket escape narrative belongs to the departure up to Jerusalem three years (at least one full year plus two fractions of a year) after Paul's conversation. A closer reading of "Paul only" (in Galatians and 2 Corinthians) and Acts' literary echo support this change of opinion.