Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

Dear all, I can only confirm what Stuart is saying here. John might be pre-Marcionite, as why would Marcion refer to him, if he was not known at all. Likewise, indeed, I think that Marcion is not at the head of everything, but that he collected oral traditions, as he did with Paul's letters. Unlike the latter, however, where he was able to have an author's name, he gathers oral traditions about Jesus without giving a source. Most likely, therefore, he depended on anonymous oral traditions, not authored written material.
Yet, if my reading of the sources were correct, he - with the best written Greek style - is the the first who not only wrote a gospel, but also created this new genre (something, I think, is strangely attributed to the one who, as all agree, wrote the poorest Greek).

Thanks for the discussion, which teaches me a lot. As I am in the last corrections of the mentioned book where John figures prominently, I refer to this forum, as I think, it is just great to have this conversation.

Good luck wrapping up the book Markus, I'm looking forward to reading it

And discover what Mark added to Marcion

Or another John was originally meant.

Markus Vinzent wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:27 am Dear all, I can only confirm what Stuart is saying here. John might be pre-Marcionite, as why would Marcion refer to him, if he was not known at all. Likewise, indeed, I think that Marcion is not at the head of everything, but that he collected oral traditions, as he did with Paul's letters. Unlike the latter, however, where he was able to have an author's name, he gathers oral traditions about Jesus without giving a source. Most likely, therefore, he depended on anonymous oral traditions, not authored written material.

Agreed. I would think that "unauthored" written material applies better, which could be based on "anonymous oral traditions" of course

Yet, if my reading of the sources were correct, he - with the best written Greek style - is the the first who not only wrote a gospel, but also created this new genre (something, I think, is strangely attributed to the one who, as all agree, wrote the poorest Greek).

Thanks for the discussion, which teaches me a lot. As I am in the last corrections of the mentioned book where John figures prominently, I refer to this forum, as I think, it is just great to have this conversation.

Dear Markus, would you please also publish it in ebook? I don't care about the price tag, but hard copies make for such poor research material. I could buy the paper book, scan it and OCR it, but I'd rather just have it at the ready.
I'd really appreciate it, and I think it would greatly benefit the (re)use of your material

Herzlich vielen Dank!