Does Cephas mean a "pointed rock"?

[stephan happy huller]

They may well be able to bring up some twisted examples where a word which naturally means 'stone that can fit in your hand' can be construed to mean something else but the proper Hebrew word for rock is צור. In Aramaic the correct word is shua

http://cal1.cn.huc.edu/showjastrow.php?page=1538

rock JLAtg, Syr, LJLA. JSB4 144:15 ܡܬܒܪܐ ܫܘܥ̈ܐ ܘܗܓܡܐ ܫܩܝ̈ܦܐ ܘܫܩܠܐ ܟܐܦ̈ܐ P 2S21:10 ܘܦܪܣܬ ܠܗܿ ܥܠ ܫܘܥܐ she spread it out on the rock. (a) used as the base of a building Syr. AphDem1.7:6 ܡܛܠ ܕܣܼܠܩ ܠܗ ܒܢܝܢܗ ܥܠ ܫܘܥܐ ܕܟܐܦܐ ܫܪܝܪܬܐ for its edifice rises up upon a base of solid rock.

[neilgodfrey]

They have no Sprachgefühl. Why don't they look at what Sokoloff's book is called - A dictionary of Jewish Palestinian Aramaic of the Byzantine period.

Now why did Jack Kilmon abetted by Jim West hide the full title from me I wonder. They surely would not have anticipated further questions from me, would they? Jack also said in effect that "there is ample evidence for the meaning of the word" without explaining what that "ample evidence" is or what meaning he was referring to. I am coming to conclude his knowledge of the word does not extend beyond the Byzantine dictionary. All their carrying on was just to hide their ignorance when confronted with a question from an amateur outsider.

Thanks for the info.

[stephan happy huller]

In fairness, in some editions the physical 'front' of the book says only 'A Dictionary of Jewish Palestinian Aramaic.' It demands you actually open the cover and look in what is written inside to know what's what.

The point is that most of these people have learned to play scholarly 'tricks' - you know, twist how the Targumim, the LXX, the Vulgate etc. translate a certain word. You can develop for instance point to Isa 22:16 for example as an example which works for their argument. The LXX has ἐν πέτρᾳ, the Targum Jonathan בְכֵיפָא all to translate the Hebrew בַסֶּ֖לַע. So the leap up - a ha! We see everything we need here to be true.

But this one instance doesn't change the basic fact that כֵיפָא naturally means 'stone.' There might be instances where it is stretched to mean something else. But when a Jew would pick up a stone to stone someone there was no confusion that he was going to hurl a big boulder at the them. It's just silly.

If Jesus really did say 'I will call you Kepha because you are like a kepha' I think everyone would have been puzzled at his choice of words.

[neilgodfrey]

If Jesus really did say 'I will call you Kepha because you are like a kepha' I think everyone would have been puzzled at his choice of words.

I suspect we have the interference that comes from bilingual authors at work here. The original word on the source wax tablet was kipa. Jesus really said he was going to build his church on Peter's hunched back. Peter was not amused and that's why he deserted Jesus at the cross.

[stephan happy huller]

I noticed this in Ben Witherington, hardly a hater of Christianity:

As J. R. Mantey has ably demonstrated, there is no known example in contemporary Greek literature where petra means the same thing as petros. A petros is a small stone or piece of a rock, but a petra is by contrast a ledge or shelf of rocks, and usually is used to refer to a cluster of rocks, such as a cliff.

This is how it is used in Isa 22:16. If Kephas was translated as petros as the gospel says. Checkmate.

[neilgodfrey]

Actually the original argument by Hanhart that led to my question does not posit that the evangelist directly translated the Aramaic word but rather that he deliberately gave a new twist to the original name (that he took as meaning "pointed rock").

[ghost]

Can anyone give further insight into the specific type of rock Cephas apparently meant?

It means the praetor of Rome, Lepidus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Ae ... riumvir%29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praetor
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lapis#Latin

[ghost]

My explanation for Peter = the 'interpreter.'

It means "praetor".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praetor

[DCHindley]

I have come across this in Karel Hanhart's The Open Tomb, p. 441:

(1) The original nickname Cephas means "pointed rock"; it may go back to Jesus himself calling Simon this in good humor. (2) But Mark prepared the readers of his post-70 Haggadah for his parting phrase in 16:7 by consistently using from 3:16 on the Greek, Petros, thus alluding to the rock of Zion (15:46, petras; cf. LXX Isa 22:16, petrai). In this way "Simon called Cephas" became "Simon called Petros," . . . .

Can anyone give further insight into the specific type of rock Cephas apparently meant?

Thanks,
Neil

I believe Aramaic/Hebrew kefa means stone (as in pebble or smaller piece of stone), which is more synonymous with Greek lithos (small stone, or stone block). Petra meant a larger mass of rock or boulder, either of which could be craggy (have sharp edges due to breakage of boulders from exposed bedrock).

Ehrman has suggested that the name Cephas may be a diminutive form of the name Caiaphas (I am not suggesting Cephas IS Caiaphas, but basically the same name, like Will is a diminutive form of William).

DCH

[neilgodfrey]

Ehrman has suggested that the name Cephas may be a diminutive form of the name Caiaphas

The mind boggles. Imagine what Robert Price might do with this with his theories of inverted symbolism and scapegoating. . .