Why "the 15° year under Tiberius"? Because the 15 of Tybi

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Why "the 15° year under Tiberius"? Because the 15 of Tybi

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Giuseppe wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:31 am I have found a curious quote from Abakuk 3:11:

Sun and moon stood still in the heavens at the glint of your flying arrows, at the lightning of your flashing spear.

The famous miracle of the biblical Joshua regared the sun and the moon delaying themselves, a miracle of judgment on his enemies.
This is the occasion for another one of those Joshua/Jesus overlaps I have mentioned before, too:

Jerome, commentary on Habakkuk, volume 2: The sixth column [of Origen's Hexapla], publishing the sacrament/secret most clearly, thus translates from the Hebrew: You went forth so as to save Your people through Jesus Your Christ, which in the Greek is rendered, .... / Sexta editio prodens manifestissime sacramentum, ita vertit ex Hebraeo: Egressus es, ut salvares populum tuum per Iesum Christum tuum, quod Graece dicitur, ἐξῆλθες τοῦ σῶσαι τὸν λαόν σου διὰ Ἰησοῦν τὸν Χριστόν σου.

Habakkuk 3.11-13: 11 Sun and moon stood in their places; they went away at the light of Your arrows, at the radiance of Your gleaming spear. 12 In indignation You marched through the earth; in anger You trampled the nations.13 You went forth for the salvation of Your people [εἰς σωτηρίαν λαοῦ σου], for the salvation of Your anointed ones [τοῦ σῶσαι τοὺς χριστούς σου; some manuscripts have the singular instead]. You struck the head of the house of the evil to lay him open from thigh to neck.

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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Why "the 15° year under Tiberius"? Because the 15 of Tybi

Post by Joseph D. L. »

Giuseppe wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:31 am I have found a curious quote from Abakuk 3:11:

Sun and moon stood still in the heavens at the glint of your flying arrows, at the lightning of your flashing spear.

The famous miracle of the biblical Joshua regared the sun and the moon delaying themselves, a miracle of judgment on his enemies.

And the 15°of Tybi was the day of full moon (=light conquering darkness == final judgment).
This could be referring to an eclipse.

Image

The eclipses that for sure had an impact on Jews and Christians occurred in 59 ad, 71 ad, and 118 ad.

Out of curiosity I've looked up various eclipses that that occurred in January. So far nothing relevant has come up but I'll keep looking.
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Why "the 15° year under Tiberius"? Because the 15 of Tybi

Post by Joseph D. L. »

An eclipse explains why in all of the resurrection accounts a stone is placed over the doorway to Jesus's tomb, and rolls away on the day of his resurrection. The stone is the moon, and the dawn/morning is the Logos resurrected.
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Giuseppe
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Re: Why "the 15° year under Tiberius"? Because the 15 of Tybi

Post by Giuseppe »

Given the Turmel's reconstruction of the original incipit of the Fourth Gospel:

God is light, (1:4)

And the light shines in the darkness, (1:5a)

and the darkness has not overcome it. (1:5b)

Yet to all who did receive him, (1:12a)

he gave the right to become children of God. (1:12b)

...the contrast light/darkness appears evident in a day of full moon (the reason of the importance of 15° Tybi).

It cannot be a coincidence that well two Gospels start with the implicit reference to conflict: light versus darkness:

  • In the 15° year of Tiberius...


  • John himself was not the light

    (John 1:8)
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Giuseppe
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Re: Why "the 15° year under Tiberius"? Because the 15 of Tybi

Post by Giuseppe »

Giuseppe wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:16 am
It came to pass then, when the disciples were sitting together on the Mount of Olives, speaking of these words and rejoicing in great joy, and exulting exceedingly and saying one to another: "Blessed are we before all men who are on the earth, because the Saviour hath revealed this unto us, and we have received the Fulness and the total completion,"--they said this to one another, while Jesus sat a little removed from them.
A great light-power descendeth on Jesus.And it came to pass then, on the fifteenth day of the moon in the month Tybi, which is the day on which the moon is full, on that day then, when the sun had come forth in his going, that there came forth behind him a great light-power shining most exceedingly, and there was no measure to the light conjoined with it. For it came out of the Light of lights, and it came out of the
last mystery, which is the four-and-twentieth |5.mystery, from within without,--those which are in the orders of the second space of the First Mystery. And that light-power came down over Jesus and surrounded him entirely, while he was seated removed from his disciples, and he had shone most exceedingly, and there was no measure for the light which was on him.
It surroundeth him entirely.And the disciples had not seen Jesus because of the great light in which he was, or which was about him; for their eyes were darkened because of the great light in which he was. But they saw only the light, which shot forth many light-rays. And the light-rays were not like one another, but the light was of divers kind, and it was of divers type, from below upwards, one [ray] more excellent than the other, . . ., in one great immeasurable glory of light; it stretched from under the earth right up to heaven.--And when the disciples saw that light, they fell into great fear and great agitation

http://gnosis.org/library/pistis-sophia/ps006.htm
If Tybi 15th is connected with full moon, then the full moon has an universal meaning as the knowledge/light that prevails the first time totally on ignorance/darkness. In short, the Parable of the Lamp, of marcionite memory.
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Giuseppe
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Re: Why "the 15° year under Tiberius"? Because the 15 of Tybi

Post by Giuseppe »

I read:

This would indicate that Basilides and/or his followers shifted the date of Christ’s baptism from the eleventh of tubi to the fifteenth of tubi in order to link it to the day of light/day of the full moon. This would tie their understanding of the baptism of Christ to the very ancient tradition, (going back at least to Justin Martyr), of light and fire at Jordan when Christ was baptized. (Justin in the Dialogue with Trypho says And then, when Jesus had gone to the river Jordan, where John was baptizing, and when He had stepped into the water, a fire was kindled in the Jordan ) A similar tradition in found in many church fathers and apocryphal texts. (The Diatessaron clearly referred to a light shining when Jesus was baptized.)

http://hypotyposeis.org/weblog/2014/08/ ... phany.html

Now, if Markus Vinzent is correct in claiming that Basilides was a reaction to Marcion, too, then the absence of the baptism in Mcn, united to the mention of the "15° year of Tiberius" in the Marcionite incipit, makes it probable that the day of the complete victory of the light over the darkness (= full moon) was connected originally not with the baptism, but with the same apparition ex nihilo of an already adult Jesus on the earth.
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Re: Why "the 15° year under Tiberius"? Because the 15 of Tybi

Post by mlinssen »

According to an old tradition, Obadiah is buried in Sebastia, at the same site as Elisha and where later the body of John the Baptist was believed to have been buried by his followers.[9]


From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obadiah

He is regarded as a saint by several Eastern churches. His feast day is celebrated on the 15th day of the Coptic Month Tobi (January 23/24) in the Coptic Orthodox Church

And

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobi_(month)

Tobi (Coptic: Ⲧⲱⲃⲓ, Tōbi), also known as Tybi (Greek: Τυβί, Tybí) and Tubah[1] (Arabic: طوبه), is the fifth month of the ancient Egyptian and Coptic calendars. It lies between January 9 and February 7 of the Gregorian calendar. The month of Tobi is also the first month of the season of Proyet (Growth and Emergence) in Ancient Egypt, where the Nile floods recede and the crops start to grow throughout the land of Egypt.

This evidently is symbolic, and stands for a new beginning.
Now I know why the FF put such stress on the alleged 15th of Tiberius and throw Pilate into the package - and don't bicker over the alleged fact that Marcion allegedly coincides with their date

The one single exception to Churchianity playing their dating game of always being prior to everything - it's bugged me since I know of it, and it is evident that locating this in *Ev is yet another falsification like all the others

Thank you very much Giuseppe, this is wonderful
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