Stuart wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:01 pm
Thinking back to your speculating that Jesus son of Joseph is actually referring not to some wood worker but to the patriarch Joseph (tribe of Ephraim's "father"), I wonder if Jacob the righteous is not actually a reference to Jacob the patriarch, known as Israel. That class of people would be Israel.
I think we maybe get too caught up in the disciples, those simple fishermen, as the ones in focus. But maybe this is an echo of something much earlier.
Just a thought.
A very fine thought. It is, and the heaven and earth point to Jacob's Ladder
From my Complete Thomas Commentary - hyperlinks got lost.
First row is transcription, second is KELLIA CDO (https://coptic-dictionary.org/search.cgi
) entry, third is translation
ⲡⲉϫⲉ ⲙ̄ ⲙⲁⲑⲏⲧⲏⲥ ⲛ̄ ⲓ̅ⲥ ̅ ϫⲉ ⲧⲛ ̄ ⲥⲟⲟⲩⲛ ϫⲉ ⲕ ⲛⲁ ⲃⲱⲕ`
ⲡⲉϫⲉ- ⲛ- ⲙⲁⲑⲏⲧⲏⲥ ⲛ- ⲓⲥ ϫⲉ- ⲧⲛ- ⲥⲟⲟⲩⲛ ϫⲉ- -ⲕ ⲛⲁ- ⲃⲱⲕ
said the(PL) Disciple to IS : we know : you will go
ⲛ̄ⲧⲟⲟⲧ ̅ ⲛ̄ ⲛⲓⲙ` ⲡⲉ ⲉⲧ ⲛⲁ ⲣ̄ ⲛⲟϭ ⲉϩⲣⲁⲓ̈
ⲛⲧⲟⲟⲧ⸗ -ⲛ ⲛⲓⲙ ⲡⲉ ⲉⲧ- ⲛⲁ- ⲉⲓⲣⲉ ⲛⲟϭ ⲉϩⲣⲁⲓ
from-the-hand-of us who? is who/which will make-be great upward
ⲉϫⲱ ⲛ ⲡⲉϫⲉ ⲓ̅ⲥ ̅ ⲛⲁ ⲩ ϫⲉ ⲡ ⲙⲁ ⲛ̄ⲧⲁ ⲧⲉⲧⲛ ̄ ⲉⲓ ⲙ̄ ⲙⲁⲩ
ⲉϫⲛ- -ⲛ ⲡⲉϫⲉ- ⲓⲥ ⲛⲁ⸗ -ⲟⲩ ϫⲉ- ⲡ- ⲙⲁ ⲛⲧⲁ- ⲧⲉⲧⲛ- ⲉⲓ ⲙⲙⲁⲩ
upon we said IS to they : the place have you(PL) come therein
ⲉ ⲧⲉⲧ ⲛⲁ ⲃⲱⲕ` ϣⲁ ⲓ̈ⲁⲕⲱⲃⲟⲥ ⲡ ⲇⲓⲕⲁⲓⲟⲥ
ⲉ- ⲧⲉⲧⲛ- ⲛⲁ- ⲃⲱⲕ ϣⲁ- ⲓ̈ⲁⲕⲱⲃⲟⲥ ⲡ- ⲇⲓⲕⲁⲓⲟⲥ
you(PL) will go toward Jacob the Righteous
ⲡⲁⲉⲓ ⲛ̄ⲧⲁ ⲧ ⲡⲉ ⲙⲛ ̄ ⲡ ⲕⲁϩ ϣⲱⲡⲉ ⲉⲧⲃⲏⲧ ϥ̄
ⲡⲁⲓ ⲛⲧⲁ- ⲧ- ⲡⲉ ⲙⲛ- ⲡ- ⲕⲁϩ ϣⲱⲡⲉ ⲉⲧⲃⲉ ⲛⲧⲟϥ
this-one have the(F) heaven with the earth come-to-be because-of he
12 the Disciples said to IS: we know you will go from the hand of us; who is who that will make be great upward upon us?
the Disciples said to IS: we know you will go from the hand of us; who is who that will make be great upward upon us?
IS said to them: the place you have come therein, you will go toward Jacob the Righteous: this one has the heaven with the earth come to be because of him
The Disciples enter the stage again; that didn't end so well last time (the moment they made their first entry), so how will they fare this time? The ⲧⲛ- is the prefix form of the 1st person plural, 'we', and ⲃⲱⲕ is a very often used verb, 'go' (logion 12, 14, 49, 57, 64, 65) which appears most frequent in its composite form ⲃⲱⲕ (ⲉϩⲟⲩⲛ), 'go-inward' (logion 14, 22, 35, 39, 64, 75, 99, 114) while statives of both can be found in logion 64 and 22, 33, 60.
Hands play their important role again in ⲛⲧⲟⲟⲧ⸗, 'from-the-hand-of', and the implication is that the Disciples will be left truly empty-handed, very much like the Seeker who started his journey in logion 9. What is their reaction to that situation?
'Who?', ⲛⲓⲙ, is a pronoun of interrogation, and the Disciples ask who will be made 'great', ⲛⲟϭ.
That is the exact same word as in logion 8 and it aided in describing the imaginary and very non-existent Great Fish when it was first sighted - but this word is used "solo" in all other places, and denotes superb nouns, such as e.g. the 'branch' in logion 20, the 'Power' in logion 21 and 85, but especially the 'sheep' of logion 107.
ⲉϩⲣⲁⲓ ⲉϫⲛ- ⲁⲛⲟⲛ, 'upward upon us' is what follows this hyperbole, and next to just meaning 'upward', ⲉϩⲣⲁⲓ is also used for 'Reinforcing following preposition': ⲉϫⲛ-, 'upon, over (and many other meanings)'. Apparently, it is not enough to just use the hyperbole but it even has to be reinforced at that; and to leave all that intact the translation has just left the words in their place: 'who will make be great upward upon us?'. The usual translations say "who will be our leader". Leader?
ⲁⲛϫⲱϫ - leader, commander
ⲁⲣⲭⲏⲅⲟⲥ - originator, founder, chief, ruler, sovereign
ⲁⲣⲭⲱⲛ - ruler, nobleman, notable
ⲣⲉϥϫⲓⲙⲟⲉⲓⲧ - leader, guide
ϩⲏⲅⲉⲙⲱⲛ - ruler, leader
ϩⲏⲅⲟⲩⲙⲉⲛⲟⲥ - (political / church) leader, ruler, guide, instructor
ϫⲁⲩⲙⲟⲉⲓⲧ - leader, guide
Those are the choices for the word "leader", and it's 50-50 Coptic-Greek: plenty to pick from, and although it is very understandable to try and find a legible English way to express this Coptic construction, there again is a hyperbole in Thomas (which has gone unnoticed like most everything else) with the word 'great' in combination with the very visible Coptic hyperbole of ⲉϩⲣⲁⲓ̈ that reinforces ⲉϫⲱ. The typical Yeshua-type translations use "Rabbi", but that equates to the same understatement as "leader", and "guru" should have been the most modest translation to aim for. "Who will make be superb, towering over us?" is the nearest literal translation that conveys the very strong implication of both words used; ⲛⲟϭ and ⲉϩⲣⲁⲓ, and the resulting image is one of lazy, ignorant and passive "Disciples" who seek a permanent leader to guide them in all things possible for the remainder of their life, possibly also when it comes to the choice of food, haircut and what clothes to wear.
As before, the Disciples make a total mockery of themselves by showing a complete absence of any initiative at all whatsoever - and IS lashes out, vehemently.
IS said to them: the place you have come therein, you will go toward Jacob the Righteous: this one has the heaven with the earth come to be because of him
The place. ⲙⲁ; the Disciples inquire after a moment in time, and IS responds with a location - that is the first sign of complete disagreement.
The Past Perfect of ⲛⲧⲁ-, 'have', is the next sign, as it asserts a very finite moment in the past, while they were asking about the future, ⲛⲁ-.
The word ⲙⲙⲁⲩ ('therein') is the third disagreement as it is the adverbial use of ⲙⲁⲩ, 'the place there', and its French translation of 'là-bas' as well as the German translation of 'dort' also attest to its connotation of distance, exactly like the ⲛⲏ ⲓⲟⲩⲇⲁⲓⲟⲥ of logion 43: 'those Judeans', a pejorative comment effected by putting them at a remote emotional distance via use of the demonstrative pronoun 'those' instead of "these".
Thomas picks up the future after that: ⲧⲉⲧⲛ- ⲛⲁ- ⲃⲱⲕ ϣⲁ- ⲓ̈ⲁⲕⲱⲃⲟⲥ ⲡ- ⲇⲓⲕⲁⲓⲟⲥ,'you will go toward Jacob the Righteous'. ⲛⲁ- is the verbal prefix for the Future I and II, and combines with ⲃⲱⲕ. ϣⲁ- is a preposition for 'toward', ϣⲁⲣⲟ⸗ in its pronominal form, but it is Jacob the Righteous, Greek loanword there, that deserves all attention: Righteous, ⲇⲓⲕⲁⲓⲟⲥ - δίκαιος:
'observant of custom and social rule, well-ordered, civilised / observant of right, righteous (Homer)'. What is the awkward property that is attributed to him?
ⲡⲁⲓ, 'this-one', 'has the heaven with the earth come to be because of him'. And whereas the use of 'therein' implied distance, the demonstrative pronoun 'this' is supposed to connotate intimacy, emotional closeness - unless it is used as substantive in combination with an extraordinary feat, then the effect is to put the spotlights on someone to criticise or even ridicule him: "this guy thinks the whole universe evolves around him" would the contemporary (and very free) English translation be. All translations interpret this as "high praise for James, the brother of..." - but the irony of the hyperbolic question of the utterly passive, servile Disciples evoking bitter and biting sarcasm of IS must have eluded them:
Genesis 25: 22 But the children inside her struggled with each other, and she said, “Why is this happening to me?” So Rebekah went to inquire of the LORD, 23 and He declared to her: “Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples from within you will be separated; one people will be stronger than the other, and the older will serve the younger.” 24 When her time came to give birth, there were indeed twins in her womb. 25 The first one came out red, covered with hair like a fur coat; so they named him Esau. 26 After this, his brother came out grasping Esau’s heel; so he was named Jacob. And Isaac was sixty years old when the twins were born.
Genesis 27:8 Now, my son, listen to my voice and do exactly as I tell you. 9 Go out to the flock and bring me two choice young goats, so that I can make them into a tasty dish for your father - the kind he loves. 10 Then take it to your father to eat, so that he may bless you before he dies.” 11 Jacob answered his mother Rebekah, “Look, my brother Esau is a hairy man, but I am smooth - skinned. 12 What if my father touches me? Then I would be revealed to him as a deceiver, and I would bring upon myself a curse rather than a blessing.” 13 His mother replied, “Your curse be on me, my son. Just obey my voice and go get them for me.” 14 So Jacob went and got two goats and brought them to his mother, who made the tasty food his father loved. 15 And Rebekah took the finest clothes in the house that belonged to her older son Esau, and she put them on her younger son Jacob. 16 She also put the skins of the young goats on his hands and on the smooth part of his neck. 17 Then she handed her son Jacob the tasty food and bread she had made. 18 So Jacob went to his father and said, “My father.” “Here I am!” he answered. “Which one are you, my son?” 19 Jacob said to his father, “I am Esau, your firstborn. I have done as you told me. Please sit up and eat some of my game, so that you may bless me.” 20 But Isaac asked his son, “How did you ever find it so quickly, my son?” “Because the LORD your God brought it to me,” he replied. 21 Then Isaac said to Jacob, “Please come closer so I can touch you, my son. Are you really my son Esau, or not?” 22 So Jacob came close to his father Isaac, who touched him and said, “The voice is the voice of Jacob, but the hands are the hands of Esau.” 23 Isaac did not recognize him, because his hands were hairy like those of his brother Esau; so he blessed him. 24 Again he asked, “Are you really my son Esau?” And he replied, “I am.” 25 “Serve me,” said Isaac, “and let me eat some of my son’s game, so that I may bless you.” Jacob brought it to him, and he ate; then he brought him wine, and he drank. 26 Then his father Isaac said to him, “Please come near and kiss me, my son.” 27 So he came near and kissed him. When Isaac smelled his clothing, he blessed him and said: “Ah, the smell of my son is like the smell of a field that the LORD has blessed. 28 May God give to you the dew of heaven and the richness of the earth - an abundance of grain and new wine. 29 May peoples serve you and nations bow down to you. May you be the master of your brothers, and may the sons of your mother bow down to you. May those who curse you be cursed, and those who bless you be blessed.”
That Jacob doesn't get called righteous in the Tanakh, at least not in an isolated case, save for Psalms:
Psalm 99:4 The King's strength also loves justice. You establish equity. You execute justice and righteousness in Jacob.
The first few actions of Jacob are filled with deceit, against his own family - but he is called righteous nonetheless? What about this heaven and earth then?
Genesis 28:12 And Jacob had a dream about a ladder that rested on the earth with its top reaching up to heaven, and God’s angels were going up and down the ladder. 13 And there at the top the LORD was standing and saying, “I am the LORD, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you now lie. 14 Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and east and north and south. All the families of the earth will be blessed through you and your offspring. 15 Look, I am with you, and I will watch over you wherever you go, and I will bring you back to this land. For I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you.” 16 When Jacob woke up, he thought, “Surely the LORD is in this place, and I was unaware of it.” 17 And he was afraid and said, “How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God; this is the gate of heaven!” 18 Early the next morning, Jacob took the stone that he had placed under his head, and he set it up as a pillar. He poured oil on top of it, 19 and he called that place Bethel, though previously the city had been named Luz. 20 Then Jacob made a vow, saying, “If God will be with me and watch over me on this journey, and if He will provide me with food to eat and clothes to wear, 21 so that I may return safely to my father’s house, then the LORD will be my God. 22 And this stone I have set up as a pillar will be God’s house, and of all that You give me I will surely give You a tenth.”
That heaven and earth. And that Jacob, who dares to barter with God after that same God promises him in a dream to bless him and his offspring, be with him, watch over him, and not leave him until fulfilling his promise. That Jacob. That kind of righteousness. But there is more:
Genesis 35:9 After Jacob had returned from Paddan-aram, God appeared to him again and blessed him. 10 And God said to him, “Though your name is Jacob, you will no longer be called Jacob. Instead, your name will be Israel.” So God named him Israel. 11 And God told him, “I am God Almighty. Be fruitful and multiply. A nation - even a company of nations - shall come from you, and kings shall descend from you. 12 The land that I gave to Abraham and Isaac I will give to you, and I will give this land to your descendants after you.”
To state that IS despises the passive, inactive Disciples is putting it mildly. He has been stressing action and calling for action very strongly, and has already rebuked the Disciples on their first encounter with him - and this is the second. Very strong disagreement is shown by countering their temporal question with a location, using the Past Perfect, and the remote pointer of 'the place there' - but Thomas takes the opportunity to show his disdain of them by associating them with that what he despises even more: Judaism, and the destructive Israelian dream that leaves little place for anyone outside it.
Thomas shows his disdain of 'those Judeans' in logion 43 where he accuses them of loving the tree and hating its fruit, or vice versa, and - also in the light of logion 60 - it is my suspicion that he was Samarian, (grand)parents of whom had perhaps escaped to Egypt after the destruction of mount Gerizim, its Temple, and all of Samaria around 110 BCE by the Pharisee John Hyrcanus II22 - if Josephus is to be relied on. According to the Talmud, it was Simeon the Righteous who did so, as the "temple was destroyed on the twenty-fifth of Ṭebet in the days of Alexander by Simeon the Just, to whom that monarch had given permission to destroy it". Either way, given the centuries of division between Judeans and Samarians, the latter had perfectly valid reasons to hate the former - and vice versa of course; that is how divisions fester and thrive. There may be a whole lot more to it than that, and logion 47 will elaborate on it as well, there are multiple layers in Thomas and there is a strong political one in the background, one that is so very strongly anti-Judean. Thomas most certainly is about a self-sufficient way at salvation, yet the 'split' that resonates throughout might also apply to Samarians versus Judeans, or the latter may have served as illustration for the former
Thomas rejects the Disciples a second time by having them portray complete inaction and only wanting to be "mastered". IS lashes out with full force, highly likely at the entire Israeli dream, by dismissing them to the Jacob of Isaac and Rebecca, also known as Israel
Relation to previous logia
The first time that the Disciples get told off occurred in logion 6, and Thomas will have them ask "dumb questions" until the bitter end. Time and again IS demonstrates that their questions are completely wrong, and their function is to serve as a pretext for refuting and rejecting religion in general and Judaism in particular, and to redirect their strongly eschatological questions by repeating his own answers, the epitome of which is the penultimate logion, 113, which is a concise repetition of logion 3: have they learned nothing at all, between beginning and end of this text?