Of Nazirites & Naṣoraeans.

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
cora
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Re: Of Nazirites & Naṣoraeans.

Post by cora »

You should now that Epiphanius does a lot of lying. Just like all the Christian authors we have. All the church fathers tell it themselves, so you do not have it from me. Eusebius does the same. You are just interested in the texts you say. What if they are fake and lied? Ever thought about that? Then what are you learning from? This is a serious question. You obviously do not know that the winners (the church of rome) RE-WROTE history?
As far as I know the Nazarenes/aeans were first reported about in the 4 th century, by Epiphanius, and then by Jerome. And a mr. Ebion does not exist. The 4 gospels first were mentioned in 185, by Irenaeus. Even Bart Ehrmann rcognizes this, so why don't you? Before that there was the gospel of John and the gospel of Marcion. If you are serious I would start my search there. Until 170 there was no Jesus, but another name. The of Nazareth comes from the gospels from 185. This is just gospel information and you and everybody since 200 have been fooled: there was no Jesus of Nazareth. There was someone else. And he came from Judea. IMO what you are doing is rather useless, because you still have no answer to your questions. But maybe it is just your hobby. I stop helping you now, unless you get civilized. I have not seen it yet.
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DCHindley
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Re: Of Nazirites & Naṣoraeans.

Post by DCHindley »

cora wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:43 pm You should now that Epiphanius does a lot of lying. Just like all the Christian authors we have. All the church fathers tell it themselves, so you do not have it from me. Eusebius does the same. You are just interested in the texts you say. What if they are fake and lied? Ever thought about that? Then what are you learning from? This is a serious question. You obviously do not know that the winners (the church of rome) RE-WROTE history?
As far as I know the Nazarenes/aeans were first reported about in the 4 th century, by Epiphanius, and then by Jerome. And a mr. Ebion does not exist. The 4 gospels first were mentioned in 185, by Irenaeus. Even Bart Ehrmann rcognizes this, so why don't you? Before that there was the gospel of John and the gospel of Marcion. If you are serious I would start my search there. Until 170 there was no Jesus, but another name. The of Nazareth comes from the gospels from 185. This is just gospel information and you and everybody since 200 have been fooled: there was no Jesus of Nazareth. There was someone else. And he came from Judea. IMO what you are doing is rather useless, because you still have no answer to your questions. But maybe it is just your hobby. I stop helping you now, unless you get civilized. I have not seen it yet.
:popcorn:
John2
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Re: Of Nazirites & Naṣoraeans.

Post by John2 »

As far as I know the Nazarenes/aeans were first reported about in the 4 th century, by Epiphanius, and then by Jerome.

Nazarenes are mentioned in Acts 24:5.

We have found this man to be a troublemaker, stirring up riots among the Jews all over the world. He is a ringleader of the Nazarene sect.

I gather you date Acts to the time of Irenaeus so I am curious what you make of this information.
cora
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Re: Of Nazirites & Naṣoraeans.

Post by cora »

I just saw on this forum being declared that Acts was first mentioned by Irenaeus. Just like the gospels. There seems to come an agreement that Justin did not have names. Therefore the names come from Irenaeus. Mark, Mathew, Luke and John, the 4 so-called writers are also all in the Acts. This will not be a coincidence. If there are already Nazarenes in the Acts, this comes from the person who said "he will be called a Nazarene". Which is one of the gospel writers or Irenaeus, or all of them together. Nazarene is probably used to refer to Nazareth. It comes from the OT, he says. Just checking as has been done 100s of times before, there is no "he will be called a Nazarene" in the OT, but "he will be called a Nazirite". A Nazirite is a jew who takes a vow not to drink wine or have his hair shaven for a certain amount of time, maybe a month. So, I would say that Nazarene does not appear in the OT, and is a forgery in Acts.
If Acts is not a total forgery by itself, the appearance of the gospel writers there, must mean that the gospels were written before 70.
If they are not, the Acts is a total forgery.

Thank god I know that any first story was written after 70, so between 71 and 75. There was no Jesus in it, but who cares. Least of all not Justin who came up with the name Jesus. This in itself means that everything with Jesus in it was written or forged after 170. Justin provides a short-cut in proof. Sometimes you get lucky. Instead of many types here on this forum thinking "o my god, why didn't I know this, why didn't I read?", I am harassed here by people I don't even know. Now I have been called a troll. I don't even know what that is. I can name already 5 people who have let me know that my info is not wanted. All in a very rude way, 3 not even addressing me. I would say, you all just choke in it. (Not meant to you John).
Bernard Muller
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Re: Of Nazirites & Naṣoraeans.

Post by Bernard Muller »

to Cora,
The 4 gospels first were mentioned in 185, by Irenaeus. Even Bart Ehrmann rcognizes this, so why don't you?
But Bart Ehrmann wrote (bolding mine):
Now we can get to the Gospels and their accounts of Jesus’s death. Our earliest Gospel is Mark’s (written about 70 CE


Our final Gospel to be written was John (possibly around 90–95 CE, some 20 years or so after Mark, and about 60–65 years after the death of Jesus).

https://thebestschools.org/special/ehrm ... tatement/

Cordially, Bernard
Bernard Muller
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Re: Of Nazirites & Naṣoraeans.

Post by Bernard Muller »

to Cora,
As far as I know the Nazarenes/aeans were first reported about in the 4 th century, by Epiphanius, and then by Jerome.
Nazorean(s) (root: Ναζωραῖος nazōraios) appears in Mt 2:23; 26:71, Lk 18:37, Jn 18:5; 18:7; 19:19 and Acts 2:22; 3:6; 4:10; 6:14; 22:8; 24:5; 26:9
Acts 24:5: For finding this man [Paul] pest, and moving sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a leader of the sect of the Nazoraeans;

Cordially, Bernard
cora
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Re: Of Nazirites & Naṣoraeans.

Post by cora »

Bernard,
So there are Nazoraeans in the NT. Try to find them in Israel. There are about 20 different groups beginning with Nazar. Being in the NT means nothing because that was written after 170 as a reaction to Marcion. More and more people are coming to that conclusion lately. You should follow that discussion.... There is a village called Nazar(a) in Judea.

Bart Ehrman: Bart Ehrman is not god, or a see-er. Bart Ehrman is just somebody who is convinced, rather is absolutely sure, that Jesus existed. To this end he INVENTS things for which there is no evidence. For which he is laughed at. Because he is so sure you cannot reason with him. He already knows everything himself. People who know everything do not exist.
Go on YouTube and find the video: Bart Ehrman said literally that the gospels were first mentioned in 185 by Irenaeus. He cannot get around that, it is an historical fact. Not that that matters to him, for he continues to say that "that is a 100 years after they were written" without understanding his own imbecility. Because that is of course not possible. What happened in those 100 years? Nothing? Shouldn't they be brought to the church of rome, founded by their collegue Peter? Were they not waiting for these gospels. Irenaeus said: the gospels are the pillars of the church. Sure they are. So where does this 185 come from? It is impossible to have 4 gospels before 100, and the church hearing about them a 100 years later. Bart Ehrman is an imbecile without knowing it himself. Like many other people but he is always in the picture. The gospels were written BY the church in order to wipe out Marcion. It was Marcion who had the one original gospel and it is gone forever.

greetings, Cora.
Bernard Muller
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Re: Of Nazirites & Naṣoraeans.

Post by Bernard Muller »

to Cora,
Nazoreans (root: Ναζωραῖος nazōraios) cannot be derived from Nazar, Nazara or Nazareth because of the "o" ('ω') is replacing the "a" ('α') as in 'Ναζαρὲτ' (Nazareth).
Bart Ehrman: Bart Ehrman is not god
But you are, or just illuminated?
To this end he INVENTS things for which there is no evidence. For which he is laughed at.

Cora, you do much worse. :D :D :D

About Bart Hermann video, I found that one on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzU6EvEpc5g
Here, Bart said gMark was written in 70, gLuke & gMatthew about 80-85, gJohn about 90-95.

Do you have another Bart's video in mind?

Cordially, Bernard
hakeem
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Re: Of Nazirites & Naṣoraeans.

Post by hakeem »

cora wrote: If Acts is not a total forgery by itself, the appearance of the gospel writers there, must mean that the gospels were written before 70.
If they are not, the Acts is a total forgery...
You mean Acts of the Apostles is total fiction. The writing is anonymous so cannot be regarded as a forgery.
Cora wrote:Thank god I know that any first story was written after 70, so between 71 and 75. There was no Jesus in it, but who cares. Least of all not Justin who came up with the name Jesus. This in itself means that everything with Jesus in it was written or forged after 170. Justin provides a short-cut in proof. Sometimes you get lucky. Instead of many types here on this forum thinking "o my god, why didn't I know this, why didn't I read?", I am harassed here by people I don't even know. Now I have been called a troll. I don't even know what that is. I can name already 5 people who have let me know that my info is not wanted. All in a very rude way, 3 not even addressing me. I would say, you all just choke in it. (Not meant to you John).
Aristides in his Apology c 117-138 CE, wrote about a character called Jesus before Justin so it is unlikely that the name comes from Justin.

ARISTIDES Apology
The Christians, then, trace the beginning of their religion from Jesus the Messiah; and he is named the Son of God Most High. And it is said that God came down from heaven...

cora
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Re: Of Nazirites & Naṣoraeans.

Post by cora »

Hai Hakeem,
This apology from Aristides is fake/fiction. Jesus the messiah, the son of jahweh, did not appear before 185. It so-called comes from Christ, for which first Paul's letters had to be forged. I guess Irenaeus made a new alias. He already had 8 or so.

I looked up Aristides myself. From him is still there ONE line. From that line he appears to me a friendly gnostic chrestian teacher. There were no church Christians yet. The first one we know is Justin, who was NOT a member of the church. After 160 Irenaeus sets church Christianity up and writes the NT (and forges).

Justin wrote somewhere: the (original) name means "Man" or "Jesus". Guess what was chosen. Justin also declares that Jesus is the same as Josua. You cannot change an O in an E. Or UA in US. But immediately the Septuagint was changed. Always nice to have a name which means Josua, although it is not true. That is how it worked. The name Jesus was invented by Justin Martyr.
And now everything with Jesus in it from before is a forgery. Like the TF. That is how they worked. Even Tertullianus was surprised. Before it was two gods and one son. So he drops somewhere: two gods, two sons. Which he would not say if that was already the case.

What I don't understand is that nobody ever points to Irenaeus, who did it all. Of course he takes a tone as if everything he says is obvious, well known and normal. They told lately on the radio here that that is exactly the tone you must take when you want to introduce NEW things. So that was known in the 2nd century already. Irenaeus is so much smarter than what walks around here now. Cora.
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