MrMacSon wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:28 am
Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:07 pm
... if you want to read something by Irenaeus which has little to do with the heretics, try the Demonstration
. He mentions the heretics maybe two or three times altogether in it. (Irenaeus himself even sounds a tiny bit gnostic a couple of times in it.)
? The Demonstration of the Apostolic Preaching
Yes, it does seem a little gnostic in a couple of places.
It reads to me like a pre
-Gospel document: general theological rhetoric; quite a few appeals to major Jewish prophets throughout, with a few references to Moses, David, Isaiah, and Jerimiah; a few general statements about Christianity, including vague references to disciples of the Apostles, presbyteri apostolorum discipuli
; several appeals to the Logos
among the rhetoric; a couple of references to Paul, one reference to John the Baptist and one to the disciple John, but no references to Mark, Luke or Matthew.
Now, of course one shouldn't expect much recitation of the Canonical Gospels of other BT book in a work like this, but one might expect more and much better citation or representation of what the Gospels say Jesus is said to have said or said to have done.
So, in Against Heresies
, in which Irenaeus quotes from the canonical gospels at length and in detail, summarizing each one basically from start to finish, it is apparently an issue that he talks so dang much about the heresies
. In the Demonstration of the Apostolic Preaching
, in which he barely mentions the heresies, the issue is that he demonstrates
what he perceives to be the Jewish basis for the apostolic preaching
instead of quoting more from the gospels.
Instead of expecting him to talk about the gospels more in the Demonstration
and the heresies less in Against Heresies
, why not just reverse the field and acknowledge that he discusses both the gospels and the heresies in Against Heresies
, but speaks more theologically and foundationally in the Demonstration
? Once one does that, both works make sense for their design and purpose and fall into place at the same time.
(That this is so, by the way, is not a positive case for whatever you are arguing against. It is merely the neutralizing of a perceived negative case.)