MrMacSon wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:25 pm
mlinssen wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:18 am
But it's likely that stauros and soteros "were twin concepts".
I'd almost go Hebrew with it, STR or SRT. Like he did with IHS
The Greek of Ireaneus
1 shows that, from that screenshot your post up-thread
viewtopic.php?p=118792#p118792
which includes Σταυρον/Stauros
and σταυρον/stauros;
and calls Σταυρον
[Stauros], l. Σωτήρα, Saviour
From a crude translation -
he is Σταυρον, Stauros, while in so far as he divides and separates, he is Horos. They then represent the Σταυρον, Stauros [ l. Σωτήρα, Saviour ] as having indicated this twofold faculty: first, the sustaining power, when He said, "Whosoever doth not bear his σταυρον [stauros; cross], and follow after me, cannot be my disciple;"(5) and again, "Taking up the σταυρον [stauros; cross] follow me;"(6) but the separating power when He said, "I came not to send peace, but a word."
1 I just had another look, I don't think that text is Irenaeus, I think it's Epiphanius, judging by the heading on p. 207 or 208
(and I can't find it in the English version of Irenaeus'
Against Heresies, though there are a few passages which are similar: I,3.1; II,12.7;
and IV,35.4 - which might suggest Epiphanius was using Irenaeus)
mlinssen wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:58 am
Yes, I laughed out loud when I read that. There's a typo in that text by the way, it's not yours: sword is the word, not word (sic)
Yeah, I did wonder if it was supposed to be sword, as per one or two verses in Matt 10 (I think).
mlinssen wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:58 am
The screenshot I made is of Thomas logion 55, which says exactly what Irenaeus
?? is quoting, and the other quote is Thomas logion 16
55 said IS : he-who-will hate his father not with his(F) mother he will be-able make-be Disciple not to I and not he hate his(PL) brother with his(PL) sister not he carry of his Stauros within my(F) manner he will come-to-be not he been-made Worthy-one to I
16 said IS : Perhaps they think viz. the(PL) human : have I come to cast of a(n) Peace upon the World and they know not : have I come to cast of some(PL) division upon the earth a(n) fire a(n) sword a(n) War there-be five Indeed will come-to-be in a(n) house there-be three will come-to-be upon two and two upon three the father upon the child and the child upon the father and they will stay to foot they in-case they been-made the(PL) Solitary
Cheers, that's interesting 'alignment' with Thomas logia for a Church Father (who, as I noted above, may be Epiphanius, which would be interesting).