GakuseiDon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:57 pm
So, to clarify: are you suggesting that some Christians might have thought that Jesus was nailed to a stake (i.e. a single upright post), rather than to a cross-shaped object?
It seems in every case we see 'crucified' or 'cross' in English translations, the Greek word is based on σταυρός ie. stauros = stake.
I'm working through the implications of that. As you know, I'm interested in the commentary of Justin Martyr appealing to the form of Moses in Ezekiel 17:10-12 and to other manifestations of outstretched hands (I also think Isaiah 42:5 might be relevant, too).
mlinssen has, for Justin's
First Apology, pointed out in a post upthread,
page 2, that the Greek has a derivative of σταυρός and that one Latin version has crucifixum, so it may well be that the change in terminology from stake to crucified actually came with more texts being written in Latin (and the concept of crucifixion has been retrofitted onto the original terminology).
I found, via a link to a Latin version of
Octavius which Ben provided, -
MrMacSon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:46 pm
A few 'cricis' and 'cruces'; a 'crucem'
(accusative singular of crux); and a
'cruciatibus',
chap XXXV (dative or ablative plural of cruciātus (or both))
And it seems
Martijn and I independently worked out '
cruciatibus ' in
Octavius XXXV simply means 'torments', not crucified.
As an aside, though of some comparative Interest, Justin Martyr's
First Apol XXXV also has torment/ed, viz. -
And as the prophet spoke, they tormented Him, and set Him on the judgment-seat
but I'm pretty sure the word for 'tormented' in the Greek version is διασύροντες but I can't find a koine Greek -> English translation of it anywhere.*
* the few koine Greek -> English online services I tried didn't work for other words either (maybe I need to sign-up (?)
Nonetheless, διασύροντες doesn't appear to be related to σταυρός.
As for 'nailed', the only references in the NT that refer to nailing or nails which I have found, albeit on a preliminary look, are -
1.
Colossians 2:14 ESV
By cancelling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the σταυρῷ - staurō/'cross'.
https://biblehub.com/text/colossians/2-14.htm has "having nailed - προσηλώσας / prosēlōsas - it to the stake/pole " ie. past tense.
2.
Luke 23:33 CEV has Jesus nailed to the cross -
When the soldiers came to the place called “The Skull,” they nailed Jesus to a cross. They also nailed the two criminals to crosses, one on each side of Jesus.
but the Greek doesn't, nor the NRSV.
3.
John 20:25
So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the τύπον - typon/mark - of the ἥλων - hēlōn/nails - and place my finger into the mark/τύπον of the nails/ἥλων, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.”
Which all seems pretty flimsy.
.