If we assume Thomas to be the first to mention (only!) Johannes the Immerser, we can see the evolution in Philip, who uses a verb, a noun: the person came first and the stories about him later.Jagd wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:56 amThat would certainly make sense. A lot of the gospel material appears to have clear instructional purpose, like some of the healings in Mark that are basically step-by-step guides, or the mission to the twelve, which reads like “this is how you’re supposed to live as a wandering Christian.”MrMacSon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:30 pmOil is more substantial than water, huh ?mlinssen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:13 am63. If one goes down into the water and comes back up without having received anything, saying ‘I’m a XRηSTIANOS’, he has taken the name on loan. Yet if he receives the Sacred Spirit, he has the gift of the name ...
101. The Chrism is made lord over the Baptism. For from the Chrism we are called XRISTIANOS not because of the Baptism. And was called the XS because of the Chrism.
The Chrism is the Greek word xrisma, 'anointing'
"The Chrism is made lord over the Baptism" makes me wonder if John the Baptism is a personfication / anthropomorphization of baptism 9and if this could be a stage in the process of Jesus beginning to be portrayed as usurping John)
I’d guess there may have been a baptism story that was then combined with the Elijah-Elisha stuff about the spirit acting like a dove.
Mark was the first to add the Tanakh material, that is pretty much guaranteed
Thomas has a dove in his serpents / dove saying belonging to logion 39, the keys to the kingdom, which got dislocated: Logion 39 has its doves and serpents moved to Matthew 10:16 whereas he has the other parts in chapter 23; he is the only one who has it so Thomas must have combined those two parts into one logion, because?
Philip has no dove but he does have the holy spirit, and it would be very useful to peruse the NHL looking for texts where the dove and Baptism meet - or where either of the two occurs, period
It's a soup guys, and ingredients get slowly added over a lengthy period of time and in diverse texts - trace those moments and you have a chronology of how it all came together, it's really not that hard
THE TEACHINGS OF SILVANUS 94,29-95,23 307 (NHL Codex VII)
in mind!
My son, do not swim in any water, and do not allow yourself to be defiled by strange kinds of knowledge. Certainly you know that the schemes of the Adversary are not few, and (that) the tricks which he has are varied? Especially has the noetic man been robbed of the intelligence of the snake. For it is fitting for you to be in agreement with the intelligence of (these) two: with the intelligence of the snake and with the innocence of the dove - lest he (the Adversary) come into you in the guise of a flatterer, as a true friend, saying, "I advise good things for you."
But you did not recognize the deceitfulness of this one when you received him as a true friend. For he casts into your heart evil thoughts as good ones, and hypocrisy in the guise of
My son, do not swim in any water, and do not allow yourself to be defiled by strange kinds of knowledge. Certainly you know that the schemes of the Adversary are not few, and (that) the tricks which he has are varied? Especially has the noetic man been robbed of the intelligence of the snake. For it is fitting for you to be in agreement with the intelligence of (these) two: with the intelligence of the snake and with the innocence of the dove - lest he (the Adversary) come into you in the guise of a flatterer, as a true friend, saying, "I advise good things for you."
But you did not recognize the deceitfulness of this one when you received him as a true friend. For he casts into your heart evil thoughts as good ones, and hypocrisy in the guise of
THE TESTIMONY OF TRUTH 39,3-39,31 (NHL Codex IX)
God created members for our use, for us to grow in defilement, in order that we might enjoy ourselves." And they cause God to participate with them in deeds of this sort; and they are not steadfast upon the earth. Nor will they reach heaven, but [...] place will [...] four ...
... (3 lines unrecoverable)
... unquenchable ...
... (3 lines unrecoverable)
... word [...] upon the Jordan river, when he came to John at the time he was baptized. The Holy Spirit came down upon him as a dove [...] accept for ourselves that he was born of a virgin and he took flesh; he
... (3 lines unrecoverable)
... unquenchable ...
... (3 lines unrecoverable)
... word [...] upon the Jordan river, when he came to John at the time he was baptized. The Holy Spirit came down upon him as a dove [...] accept for ourselves that he was born of a virgin and he took flesh; he
Took me 5 minutes guys: all occurrences of dove in all of the NHL (save for Thomas'). All of the stuff is online
Many NHL texts have baptise/baptism, not all of them in a positive way (Paraphrase of Shem for example). Yet Silvanus nor Truth do - and we suffer from the same "translation" issues, as "take dip" also gets translated with baptism, whereas the Greek loanword should be the primary source