hakeem wrote:The author of gJohn claimed the Comforter was the Holy Ghost and that his disciples could not receive the Holy Ghost unless he went away but he seems to have forgotten his own story and claimed the disciples received the Holy Ghost before he had gone away on the very same day that Jesus supposedly resurrected.
In any event, it is clear that the author of gJohn knew nothing at all about the stories of talking of tongues by the apostles and the gift of interpretation of tongues.
Acts of the Apostles and the so-called Pauline Epistles were composed after gJohn
Where did you get your story that Jesus was bestowing the Spirit? Please explain how does one actually bestow a Spirit?davidmartin wrote:I missed that contradiction before, all this confusion over when the Spirit was made available convinces me the original, simplest story was that Jesus was bestowing the Spirit during his mission and it's as simple as that.
I don't know where you got your stories about Jesus baptising in the Spirit but in gMark, gMatthew and gLuke the story is that Jesus did not even want anyone to know he was Christ and did not want outsiders to understand him so that they would not be converted and their sins be forgiven.davidmartin wrote:Later it got worked into the theology that emerged and made dependent on the cross but leaving behind the clues to the original in various places. A Jesus who goes around baptising in Spirit means Christians existed prior to the cross, maybe that doesn't seem a big deal but it could well be that was what some opponents ('heretics') of the proto-orthodox were saying, which is why the point gets repeated a few times in both gJohn and Acts maybe
Mark 4
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
Mark 8
30 And he charged them that they should tell no man of him.
It is quite implausible that there would be people called Christians while they had no idea that the supposed Jesus was Christ and when it is claimed Jesus did not want people to be converted and have their sins forgiven.
gMark's Jesus did not come to start a new religion and give people the gifts of talking in tongues and interpretation.
Stories about talking in tongues, gifts of interpretation, thousands of believers in Jerusalem and Saul/Paul persecuting them in Acts and the Pauline Epistles are very late stories fabricated after gMark, gMatthew and gJohn.