Marcion Bible website of Klinghardt and Co

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MrMacSon
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Marcion Bible website of Klinghardt and Co

Post by MrMacSon »

.
Warning: supposedly Not Secure https://marcionbible.tu-dresden.de/
(works fine for me)

Homepage: https://marcionbible.tu-dresden.de/

The MARCION'S GOSPEL webpage is [unfortunately still] under construction

The MARCION VARIANTS webpage: https://marcionbible.tu-dresden.de/marcionvariants.html

The first four rows:

Verse (Luke)
Canonical Text with
Highlighting
Literary Testimonies
for Mcn
Variants in the
Mss Tradition of Lk
Results for
Reconstructing Mcn
4,27 (s. 17,18) καὶ πολλοὶ λεπροὶ ἦσαν ἐν τῷ Ἰσραὴλ ἐπὶ Ἐλισαίου τοῦ προϕήτου Tert. 4,35,6: multos tunc fuisse leprosos apud Israelem in diebus Helisaei prophetae

Epiph. Schol. 48: πολλοὶ λεπροὶ ἦσαν ἐν ἡμέραις Ἐλισσαίου τοῦ προϕήτου
Reading: vs. 4,27 post 4,26 : it M

Reading: pon. vs. in *17,10-18: McnT.E
(1) Only testified by the main sources for Marcion, without equivalent in (canonical) manuscripts.

Allocation of Variants:
McnT = McnE L = G = M

Testified: (ÜZ) Congruent testimony of two or more of the main sources.
4,27 (s. 17,18) καὶ πολλοὶ λεπροὶ ἦσαν ἐν τῷ Ἰσραὴλ ἐπὶ Ἐλισαίου τοῦ προϕήτου Tert. 4,35,6: multos tunc fuisse leprosos apud Israelem in diebus Helisaei prophetae

Epiph. Schol. 48: πολλοὶ λεπροὶ ἦσαν ἐν ἡμέραις Ἐλισσαίου τοῦ προϕήτου
Reading: εν τω Ισραηλ/in Israhel (Isdrahel /Istrahel): McnT it M

Reading: om McnE 579 Orig (Cels II 48) Ambr (In Lc 4,49)
(4) Not testified by the manuscripts of the "Western Text" (D it sy), but nevertheless supported by manuscript witnesses of the textual tradition in Greek.

Allocation of Variants:
McnE = G1 McnT = G2 = L = M

Testified: (WZ) Two or three of the main sources differ on their testimony for Mcn.
4,27 (s. 17,18) καὶ πολλοὶ λεπροὶ ἦσαν ἐν τῷ Ἰσραὴλ ἐπὶ Ἐλισαίου τοῦ προϕήτου Tert. 4,35,6: multos tunc fuisse leprosos apud Israelem in diebus Helisaei prophetae

Epiph. Schol. 48: πολλοὶ λεπροὶ ἦσαν ἐν ἡμέραις Ἐλισσαίου τοῦ προϕήτου
Reading: επι/sub : a aur b c d f ff2 l q r1 M

Reading: εν ημεραις: McnT.E Orig e (tempore) Ambr (temporibus)
(2) Besides in the main sources also testified in manuscripts of the so called "Western Text" (D it sy).

Allocation of Variants:
McnT = McnE ~= L1 L2 = G = M

Testified: (ÜZ) Congruent testimony of two or more of the main sources.
4,27b καὶ οὐδεὶς αὐτῶν ἐκαθαρίσθη εἰ μὴ Ναιμὰν ὁ Σύρος Epiph. Schol. 48: καὶ οὐκ ἐκαθαρίσθη εἰ μὴ Νεεμὰν ὁ Σύρος Reading: ουδεις αυτων: it M

Reading: ουκ McnE
(1) Only testified by the main sources for Marcion, without equivalent in (canonical) manuscripts.

Allocation of Variants:
McnE L = G = M

Testified: (EZ) Singular testimony in one of the main sources.
continuing


via a link next to Dr. Jan Heilmann's name via the 4th tab, the CONTACT/DISCLAIMER tab, >
  • TENT: The earliest Edition of the New Testament (in German) https://tu-dresden.de/gsw/phil/iet/fors ... testaments

    eg. after that landing page is converted to English, in part, >

    Subproject 1: The Marcionite Letter to the Romans and the variants of the canonical manuscripts (Alexander Goldmann)

    Subproject 2: The handwritten variants in the tradition of the Ephesian letter and the testimony for the marcionitic apostolos edition (Tobias Flemming)

Via Eastern Noninterpolations, bottom right of the homepage: https://enipolatio.hypotheses.org/

.
Last edited by MrMacSon on Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Jax
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Re: Marcion Bible website of Klinghardt and Co

Post by Jax »

Right on. Thanks for this.

Lane :cheers:
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DCHindley
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Re: Marcion Bible website of Klinghardt and Co

Post by DCHindley »

Last I heard, Klinghadt had not yet published anything significant in English.

I was not aware that there is a website, though. They got their own conventions for citing sources, which seems weird to me at this time, but clearly serious research is being done.

From what I have read from him (in English or E. Translation) did not leave me especially hopeful, as I kind of felt he already had his opinion about these subjects and he would arrange the available factoids to conform. I like to think that those factoids should lead to the explanation.

Is there really a difference between these seemingly opposite approaches?

DCH
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Ken Olson
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Re: Marcion Bible website of Klinghardt and Co

Post by Ken Olson »

DCHindley wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:02 am Last I heard, Klinghadt had not yet published anything significant in English.
DCH
David,

Now there's this:

https://www.amazon.com/Oldest-Gospel-Fo ... 9042943092

Amazon warns only 20 left in stock, which sounds like it really has been published. I don't think it's made it into many libraries yet though.

Best,

Ken
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Jax
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Re: Marcion Bible website of Klinghardt and Co

Post by Jax »

Ken Olson wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:16 am
DCHindley wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:02 am Last I heard, Klinghadt had not yet published anything significant in English.
DCH
David,

Now there's this:

https://www.amazon.com/Oldest-Gospel-Fo ... 9042943092

Amazon warns only 20 left in stock, which sounds like it really has been published. I don't think it's made it into many libraries yet though.

Best,

Ken
Eye Chihuahua!

Not going to be on my bookshelf any time soon.
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arnoldo
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Re: Marcion Bible website of Klinghardt and Co

Post by arnoldo »

An earlier paper back edition by the author is available for $5.00
The Oldest Gospel: Klinghardt Edition Stephen Trobisch https://www.amazon.com/dp/1931475695/re ... UTF8&psc=1 via @amazon
*Edit*
I've just ordered it so I can't provide any other details other than the book description given by amazon on this 2018 English paperback edition.
This gospel was first published by Marcion of Sinope as part of a collection that also contained ten letters of Paul. Its title was simply "Gospel", suggesting to readers of the collection that it was the gospel of which Paul spoke in his letter to the Galatians (Gal 1:6-9). Marcion moved from Asia Minor to Rome by the year 144. He insisted that someone had used the anonymous book to create the "Gospel According to Luke".

No manuscripts of the full text are known to have survived. Tertullian of Carthage, Epiphanius of Salamis, the author of the Dialogues of Adamantius, and several others, however, wrote extensively about this gospel. Their quotes and detailed descriptions preserved much of the text.

Throughout the centuries, many attempts of reconstructing this gospel were undertaken, but none with the painstakingly detailed effort of Matthias Klinghardt, Professor of New Testament at the Technical University of Dresden, Germany. Klinghardt's 2015 reconstruction is presented here for the first time in an English translation. This gospel is presumed to be older than the canonical Four-Gospel book.

The ISBN is 1931475695. ISBN search engine results indicates it's available in multiple locations.

https://www.bookfinder.com/search/?auth ... t=sr&ac=qr
Last edited by arnoldo on Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ken Olson
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Re: Marcion Bible website of Klinghardt and Co

Post by Ken Olson »

arnoldo wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:02 am An earlier paper back edition by the author is available for $5.00
The Oldest Gospel: Klinghardt Edition Stephen Trobisch https://www.amazon.com/dp/1931475695/re ... UTF8&psc=1 via @amazon
Arnoldo,

Have you seen this? It looks to me like that's a translation of Klinghardt's reconstructed text of Marcion. Does it contain an explanation of how he got there?

The two volume (for which the first volume has now been published) are called I: Inquiry and 2: Reconstruction. I'm assuming that Klinghardt discusses the issues and (probably) lays out his argument in part 1.

Best,

Ken
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Marcion Bible website of Klinghardt and Co

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Ken Olson wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:21 amIt looks to me like that's a translation of Klinghardt's reconstructed text of Marcion. Does it contain an explanation of how he got there?

The two volume (for which the first volume has now been published) are called I: Inquiry and 2: Reconstruction. I'm assuming that Klinghardt discusses the issues and (probably) lays out his argument in part 1.
I have this book on my shelf. It is precisely that, a translation of Klinghardt's reconstruction. There is no explanation, and the text itself is not even versified.

ETA: There is a list of Lucan pericopes in an appendix, along with the Lucan verse ranges and the corresponding page numbers in the body of the book.
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DCHindley
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Re: Marcion Bible website of Klinghardt and Co

Post by DCHindley »

Ken Olson wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:16 am
DCHindley wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:02 am Last I heard, Klinghadt had not yet published anything significant in English.
DCH
David,

Now there's this:

https://www.amazon.com/Oldest-Gospel-Fo ... 9042943092

Amazon warns only 20 left in stock, which sounds like it really has been published. I don't think it's made it into many libraries yet though.

Best,

Ken
$240 for a hardbound volume probably means there won't be too many in the libraries of private individuals, except among those of unlimited means or those willing to splurge. One thousand four hundred pages! I'd wear out my flatbed scanner just trying to copy tables, if I had a better OCR program than I do at the moment.

DCH
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DCHindley
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Re: Marcion Bible website of Klinghardt and Co

Post by DCHindley »

Here was my amateur summary of the 2018 book that featured a translation of the reconstructed text w/o any critical notes or apparatus (except the table someone mentioned):

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4706&p=94519&hilit= ... rdt#p94519

I think this corresponds to the 1st volume of the 2015 German original. The new Dec. 2020 book probably corresponds to vol 2.

Where are Detering's German language protégés (Fabri, etc) when we need them? :?:

DCH
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