IMVHO he is suggesting that you may be looking for patterns in random data.
Andrew Criddle
Ah! Ok, thank you Andrew.andrewcriddle wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 8:28 pmIMVHO he is suggesting that you may be looking for patterns in random data.
Andrew Criddle
Data is always random, it is Information that is structured.Jax wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 6:47 amAh! Ok, thank you Andrew.andrewcriddle wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 8:28 pmIMVHO he is suggesting that you may be looking for patterns in random data.
Andrew Criddle
But aren't there actually some observable patterns in the data? For instance the consistent use of KY, KC, KN, and KW as opposed to abbreviations like ThY etc which are not always used, or that KY, ThY etc are always abbreviated using the first letter followed by a case ending unlike abbreviations like IC, IHC etc which sometimes use first letter followed by case and sometimes first two letters followed by case.
IMVHO there are patterns in the data, we just need to tease them out and separate what is relevant from what is not.
That is one way to present the data, and very much in line with Ben's posts really: let's provide all the information we can but above all send the message that nothing can be concluded from it - and when people try to get into a direction, let's just throw even more unrelated info on their path and before their feet, and actively distort what they are doing. Because the alhteia myth must prevail!Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:05 pmCoptic is not an inflected language (no noun cases), so the choices are more limited than in Greek. See the second table below for the options found in the Nag Hammadi manuscripts.
Yes, but that is because God and Lord are native Coptic words in the Nag Hammadi manuscripts. That is the thing: the Nag Hammadi scribes abbreviated only the Greek loanwords. The pattern is very striking:
Terry Miosi, Tables of Nomina Sacra at Nag Hammadi.png
The highlighted words on that second table are all native Coptic words with antecedents in Pharaonic Egyptian. In other words, we can deduce nothing theological from the nonuse of those nomina sacra. The distinction is clearly linguistic.
https://ntvmr.uni-muenster.de/community ... ormat=html
Code: Select all
Verse: Coverage% MSS Hits
Mat 24:24: 26% 508 133
Mar 13:22: 36% 461 168
Act 11:26: 48% 274 131
Act 26:28: 46% 269 123
1 Pet 4:16: 4% 138 5
1 Joh 2:18: 13% 133 17
1 Joh 2:22: 12% 131 16
1 Joh 4:3: 12% 130 15
2 Joh 1:7: 9% 179 17
That's impressive. Are these mss all Greek? Or do they include Latin as well?
Not so fast. I'd like to know who dunnit and when and ...For a change I will present a table with the MSS for each verse - but first, volumetrics regarding sample size:
All has been taken from the Kurzgefasste Liste where not every transcipt is readily available, but we may very freely extrapolate on the gospels and ActsCode: Select all
Verse: Coverage% MSS Hits Mar 13:22: 43% 310 133 Mat 24:24: 31% 324 102 Act 11:26: 50% 211 106 Act 26:28: 48% 209 101 1 Pet 4:16: 3% 138 4 1 Joh 2:18: 14% 111 15 1 Joh 2:22: 13% 110 14 1 Joh 4:3: 13% 109 14 2 Joh 1:7: 9% 149 14
A pic, because nothing really renders here:
1. Verses are on top, abbridged
2. MS numbering is by the Liste, similar yet not identical to Gregory
3. The bold italic is the deviation: is the stem xrhst, xreist or just xrist (or sumtin else)
4. Then it's all neatly ordered by presumed date which sometimes is a century (when it's a nicely rounded date)
All MSS Ever.png
Conclusion:
A. We can close the forum, Christianity has been debunked as piggy bagging on Chrestianity
That's the problem with written records and the consequent downstream problem faced by people in an organisation or an industry who are incentivized to enforce damnatio memoriaeB. Xrhstianiyy to be precise, as the eta just couldn't be rooted out, evidently
No it didn't by the look of those stats.C. And the odd Xrest-xyz was Christianity struggling with (re)branding the icon and the followers, all of which didn't last long, by the looks of it
We are informed by the author of Acts that the disciples were first called Chrestians in Antioch. It was to the audience at the Council of Antioch 325 CE that the newly triumphant and supreme military commander, sole emperor and sole Pontifex Maximus Bullneck first announced the Good News of the New Kingdom. It may be presumed that at this point he almost certainly attracted a new coalition of willing disciples. Especially from the upper classes of the eastern empire.D. And all the iotacism nonsense has now really been thoroughly debunked for good, period. Funny thing is that I encountered a few MS that hadn't been "fixed" but this timeline and the blatantly obvious propensity for Xrhst-xyz bring in the old "make no mistake" adage: there was no confusing or mistaking anything, ever. Falsifying and foobarring, yes - but that is at the very core of Christianity, and to be honest IT IS ITS very core
They're all Greek as well as NT, and the texts number in the thousands, all in the process of being fully digitised in every aspectLeucius Charinus wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:08 pm That's impressive. Are these mss all Greek? Or do they include Latin as well?
The Christian-centric nature of almost all of the translations of the NHL tracts may not be recognised by everyone. Nevertheless your research on "Chrestos" and his runes ("nomina sacra") will assist this process. Good stuff.