Dogs remain dogs (in Mark)

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mlinssen
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The utter insignificance of John the Bapist in Mark

Post by mlinssen »

andrewcriddle wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:45 am
mlinssen wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:04 pm ...........................

Right. So the meagre 6 verses that John the Baptist gets in Mark, the sum total of his entire ministry, this ministry of this Prophet Of Most High, the only Prophet ever to not only accurately predict the messiah, yet also to be alive when said messiah finally did show up for once, that prophet that also not only was related to that messiah BUT EVEN MET HIM AND DIDN'T SAY A GODDAMN WORD - that Prophet, that lousy no good for nothing misfit, that prophet indeed... you believe that prophet to actually have "been in a tradition", which is bad English for having existed?

If his role in Mark is as infinitely flimsy as it is, then how much flimsier was it in *Ev?
John the Baptist is mentioned in several places in Mark after chapter 1, his death is described in chapter 6 but there are a number of other references.

Andrew Criddle
Prophets usually talk, Andrew - and an awful lot at that. If I remember correctly, but I'm sure you will lend a helping hand if I don't there are ENTIRE BOOKS in the Tanakh about their ramblings. It would even seem, but I may be wrong there, that there are even entire series of those, and word on the steeets has it that there - allegedly! - are Minor Prophets as well as Major prophets! How about that, amazing

This "prophet"? He enters the Stage in Mark 1:4 and exits in Mark 1:9, and the rest indeed is chatter about him.
But let me humour you and give you a full summary of all the times that either John or his supposed core business is mentioned in Mark:

BOOK OF Mark
Chapter 1 The Mission of John the Baptist
4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for forgiveness of sins.
5 And all the region of Judea and all of Jerusalem were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the Jordan river, confessing their sins.
6 And John was clothed in camel’s hair and a belt of leather around his waist; and he is eating locusts and wild honey.
8 I baptized you with water,d but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” The Baptism of Jesus
(Matthew 3:13-17; Luke 3:21-22; John 1:29-34)
9 And it came to pass in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptized in the Jordan by John.

14 And after the delivering up of John, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God
Chapter 2 Jesus Heals a Paralytic
18 And the disciples of John and the Pharisees were fasting. And they come and say to Him, “Why do the disciples of John and the disciples of the Pharisees fast, but Your disciples do not fast?”
Chapter 3 Jesus Heals on the Sabbath
Chapter 4 The Parable of the Sower
Chapter 5 The Demons and the Pigs
Chapter 6 The Rejection at Nazareth
14 And King Herod heard; for His name became well known. And people were saying, “John, the one baptizing, is risen out from the dead, and because of this the miraculous powers operate in him.”
16 And Herod having heard, was saying, “John, whom I beheaded—he is risen!”
17 For Herod himself, having sent, seized John, and bound him in prison, on account of Herodias, the wife of Philip his brother, because he had married her.
18 For John had been saying to Herod, “It is not lawful for you to have your brother’s wife.”
20 For Herod was afraid of John, knowing him a righteous and holy man; and he kept him safe. And having heard him, he was greatly perplexed, and heard him gladly.
24 And she having gone out, said to her mother, “What shall I ask?” And she said, “The head of John the one baptizing.”
25 And having entered immediately with haste to the king, she asked, saying, “I desire that you give to me the head of John the Baptist upon a platter at once.”
Chapter 7 Tradition and Worship
Chapter 8 The Feeding of the Four Thousand
28 And they answered Him, saying, “John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; and others, one of the prophets.”
Chapter 9 The Transfiguration
Chapter 10 Teachings about Divorce
38 And Jesus said to them, “You do not know what you ask. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, and to be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized?”
39 And they said to Him, “We are able.” And Jesus said to them, “You will drink the cup that I drink, and you will be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized,
Chapter 11 The Triumphal Entry
30 The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or from men? Answer Me.”
32 But should we say, ‘From men’...” They were afraid of the people, for all were holding that John truly was a prophet.
Chapter 12 The Parable of the Wicked Tenants
Chapter 13 Temple Destruction Foretold
Chapter 14 The Plot to Kill Jesus
Chapter 15 Jesus Delivered to Pilate
Chapter 16 The Resurrection
16 The one having believed and having been baptized will be saved, but the one having disbelieved will be condemned.

That's it, Andrew. The introduction of John The Baptist, in "the very first gospel ever".
In bold all his own actions. That's quite a resume, innit

I can be even more cynical than I have been, and will make the snark comment that this seems to be a cameo more than a proper role

They just didn't give a damn, they were stuck with the stupid epithet

"What the hell do we do with this 'Johannes the Immerser', for crying out loud?! What does it mean?"
"Ah never mind. We'll just portray him as the incarnation of Elijah, that fits with our plotting it all onto Judaism"
"Oh, good one! That means we can give him some minor part, maybe even early on, and then get him out of the way?"
"Yeah, good idea. Why don't we have him do some immersing and then have him killed - he needs to die otherwise Elijah can't take his place, they can't both be alive at the same time of course."
"Splendid. I'll just have him immerse IS then and quote some dumb lines of scripture so nobody notices the utter absence of any ritual. I mean, whatever we make up, it'll only get refuted"
"Excellent. Go ahead then, let it be done!"
Charles Wilson
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Re: Dogs remain dogs (in Mark)

Post by Charles Wilson »

John is extremely significant in Mark:

Mark 1: 7 (RSV):

[7] And he preached, saying, "After me comes he who is mightier than I, the thong of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie.

Jewish Encyclopedia, "Bilgah" (emph. added):

According to a Talmudic tradition preserved in "Halakot Gedolot" (ed. Hildesheimer, p. 631), Bilgah was assigned to the group which officiated on the second and sixth days of the Feast of Tabernacles. The priests, when entering upon their duties, received their share in the northern part of the Tabernacle, because this was near the seat of their activity. The section assigned to each division of the priesthood was furnished with an iron ring fastened to the floor, for the purpose of securing the animal designed for slaughter, and there were accordingly twenty-four openings in the wall where the knives used for slaughtering were kept. Bilgah alone received his share in the south, his ring being nailed down, and his wall-closet tightly sealed, as a punishment for the apostasy of a woman of that house by the name of Miriam, who, during the Greek dominion under Antiochus Epiphanes, had denied her faith and married a hipparch (Tos., Suk. iv. 28; Suk. 56b; Yer. Suk., end; "Rev. Et. Juives," xxxix. 54). It is further related that when the Greeks forced their way into the Temple, this woman beat her sandals upon the altar, crying: "Wolf, wolf [Λύκος, λύκος], thou hast swallowed the substance of Israel, but hast deserted us in the day of our need!"

"According to another opinion, the priests of Bilgah delayed too long in entering upon the performance of their functions; so that those of the division Jeshebeab were compelled to act in their place, and consequently received the prerogatives of Bilgah (Tos., l.c.; Yer. Suk., end); to which the Jerusalem Talmud adds that in this instance the division Bilgah was neither abolished nor amalgamated with the other twenty-three divisions, because this would have interfered with the ancient institution..."

The Mishmarot Group "Immer" FOLLOWS "Bilgah". Thus, the statement: "After me comes he who is mightier than I..." The Joke is continued: "...the thong of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie..."

THIS IS PRIESTLY and gives evidence that the Passage has been Transvalued for the New Religion. John agrees and expands:

John 1: 15, then 27 - 29 (RSV):

[15] (John bore witness to him, and cried, "This was he of whom I said, `He who comes after me ranks before me, for he was before me.'")

This must have been obvious in the Original(s) but had to be hidden with created stories ( See in John: "...He was talking about the Temple of his body..." that must "Explain" the time Marker" of 46 years. There is tension here in the arguments as to what to allow. They could have obliterated this but chose to allow it. Then, someone later had to cover the plain meaning.)

[27] even he who comes after me, the thong of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie."
[28] This took place in Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing.
[29] The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Notice the name of the Woman of Bilgah: "Miriam". "Immar -Yah-'m", perhaps "One of the Lambs of God"
Which brings up "Behold the Lamb of God": "Behold the Immar-Yah"

Pettinato, The Archives of Ebla, p. 277:

"...ni-mi-ri-ya, the panther of Ya, "illustrate this pattern and suggest that Nimrod breaks down into nmr, "panther," and -d "hadd".

SO WHAT?!??

Without Diacriticals (A fifth century invention), what is the Hebrew for BOTH "Lamb" and "The 16th Mishmarot Service Group" - IMMER?

אמּר

Which brings us full circle: The Original is a Story of the Priesthood and it reflects the Temple Slaughter of 4 BCE. The Passover and Feast start during the Service week of Bilgah and will end with Re-Dedication of the Temple under IMMER. The Coup is centered in IMMER.

This Story, whether "Real" or Literary (Under a Nicholas of Damascus, for example), gets rewritten and Transvalued into the story of a savior-god loyal to Rome.

Therefore, whatever OTHER service John serves in the New Religion, he is vitally important to the Original Story [Note: ...and at least part of that Original Story with John made it into Mark].

Best,

CW
Last edited by Charles Wilson on Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
perseusomega9
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Re: The utter insignificance of John the Bapist in Mark

Post by perseusomega9 »

mlinssen wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:16 pm

This "prophet"? He enters the Stage in Mark 1:4 and exits in Mark 1:9, and the rest indeed is chatter about him.
But let me humour you and give you a full summary of all the times that either John or his supposed core business is mentioned in Mark:

BOOK OF Mark
Chapter 1 The Mission of John the Baptist
4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for forgiveness of sins.
5 And all the region of Judea and all of Jerusalem were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the Jordan river, confessing their sins.
6 And John was clothed in camel’s hair and a belt of leather around his waist; and he is eating locusts and wild honey.
8 I baptized you with water,d but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”


I did this while very drunk Monday and being in the Pneuvma I anticipated what you were trying to convey,

https://starwarsintrocreator.kassellabs ... -VQnz628vY
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mlinssen
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Re: The utter insignificance of John the Bapist in Mark

Post by mlinssen »

perseusomega9 wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:42 pm
mlinssen wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:16 pm

This "prophet"? He enters the Stage in Mark 1:4 and exits in Mark 1:9, and the rest indeed is chatter about him.
But let me humour you and give you a full summary of all the times that either John or his supposed core business is mentioned in Mark:

BOOK OF Mark
Chapter 1 The Mission of John the Baptist
4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for forgiveness of sins.
5 And all the region of Judea and all of Jerusalem were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the Jordan river, confessing their sins.
6 And John was clothed in camel’s hair and a belt of leather around his waist; and he is eating locusts and wild honey.
8 I baptized you with water,d but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”


I did this while very drunk Monday and being in the Pneuvma I anticipated what you were trying to convey,

https://starwarsintrocreator.kassellabs ... -VQnz628vY


Fun! It could say all sorts of things LOL, the Internet is a wonderful playground
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