Did Marcion know that Pilate crucified Jesus? No

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Giuseppe
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Did Marcion know that Pilate crucified Jesus? No

Post by Giuseppe »

The answer is no according to the following argument:

Acts 2:23:
this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men

"lawless men" were the Romans. But Pilate is not mentioned. And the author of the Peter's speech in Acts knew probably the Gospel of Marcion, since Acts is a reaction against Marcion.

It is therefore unlikely that Tertullian had the original version of Marcion's Luke, or at least he didn't know what Marcion believed about the identity of who killed Jesus on earth.

Hence the original evolution of the stories was the following:
  • Before: a positive portrayal of Gamaliel the Pharisee: he calmed the Jewish opposition.
    • Implications: the death of Jesus was not connected with Jerusalem. This fits Paul's ignorance about a crucifixion of Jesus happened in Jerusalem. Gamaliel's support is fabricated evidence that the early Christians were not heretical Jews (hence, by inference, in the real past what had taken place was that the mainstream Jews were accusing/cursing the Christians of heresy).
  • After: a negative portrayal of the sinedrites, who accused Jesus before Pilate.
    • Implications: the death of Jesus was now connected with Jerusalem. Gamaliel is never mentioned. No compromise with mainstream Jews. Pilate is mentioned.
This evolution explains why Pilate was introduced: he was the Roman Governor active just in the time preceding the Gamaliel's days.

The evolution described above explains the curious anomaly of sinedrites killing Jesus and not killing Peter, too.
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Re: Did Marcion know that Pilate crucified Jesus? No

Post by Giuseppe »

Acts 2:23 is therefore evidence of a pre-Gospel source where:
  • Romans are considered material killers of Jesus
  • no mention at all of Pilate
Who were then the Romans meant as material killers of Jesus, if they were not the Romans of Pilate?

The Romans who are meant in Acts 2:23 as material killers of Jesus were probably the same identical Romans who destroyed the Temple, since Peter in Acts 2:22 is addressing the "fellow Israelites" (hence, their implicit destruction en masse in 70 CE). In other terms, the Romans of Titus.

So the source of Acts 2:23 read something as this:

this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of the Romans led by Titus.

The Jesus crucified by Titus being obviously Jesus b. Sapphat.
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Re: Did Marcion know that Pilate crucified Jesus? No

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The pre-Gospel Gamaliel's pro-Christian support was fabricated evidence not only to exculpate the early Christians from the late Jewish accusation of heresy.

Really, the original accusation was not, or not only, one of heresy.

The entire Gamaliel affair is a mere fabricated apology to exorcize the early Jewish accusation that the early Christians, and Jesus (b. Sapphat) in primis, were Zealots active during the First Jewish Rebellion (66-70 CE).

From this POV, the famous error of Gamaliel, i.e. a Theudas before (sic) a Judas the Galilean, was deliberate: Theudas's followers are said to be in number of 400. Judas the Galilean had notoriously more followers than Theudas in the real past. An Arithmetic progression is meant here: the implicit assumption, in the Gamaliel's anomalous temporal sequence of rebels (Theudas -----> Judas the Galilean) is that the number of followers of Jesus was greater than the number of followers of Judas the Galilean, just as the number of followers of the latter was greater than the number (=400) of followers of Theudas.

The implication is that, if Jesus followed the same progression in terms of number of followers of his two presumed precursors (Theudas and Judas the Galilean) then accordingly he would have shared even more the same fate, too.
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Re: Did Marcion know that Pilate crucified Jesus? No

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I have seen that the number 400 was probably derived (by Acts) from the 400 followers of the "Egyptian" false prophet and ascribed to Theudas.

Did the author of Acts only confuse these two, by mentioning the '400' in connection with Theudas, who, according to Josephus, 'persuaded a great part of the people', number unspecified ?

What if he/she knew the real name of the "Egyptian" as one and the same of: Theudas ?


Afterall, why did Fadus need to show in Jerusalem the head of Theudas, such a macabre trophy ?

It was because this Theudas had to be shown as definitely killed. His name was becoming too mush famous, since he was known, as the "Egyptian", to escape always his fate. Evidence had to be shown about his death. Was someone claiming that he was risen, after any presumed defeat?

Two options:
  • the "Egyptian" was really Theudas, or
  • Theudas's decapitation was made necessary because otherwise the people would have had no tangible evidence of the his death, and consequently they would have believed him never truly dead, but at contrary risen?
What was assumed implicitly a priori by the Roman Governors was that the messianists had to be not only defeated, but their death had to be shown to the public, because otherwise they would be considered risen, or apparently disappeared (i.e. the same thing of a translation/resurrection in heaven), by their survived followers.
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Re: Did Marcion know that Pilate crucified Jesus? No

Post by Giuseppe »

Third option:
  • the "Egyptian" claimed himself as Theudas redivivus, hence moving the author of Acts to believe that the 400 followers of the "Egyptian" were really the 400 followers of Theudas.

Fourth option:
  • the author of Acts confused the two, the "Egyptian" and Theudas, because they claimed to be both Joshua redivivus.
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