The kingdom of the heavens (for Martijn Linssen).

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Ben C. Smith
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The kingdom of the heavens (for Martijn Linssen).

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Subject: Hebrew heavens turn into Greek heaven
mlinssen wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 4:50 amWhere the hell (pun!) did Matthew get his kingdom of the heavens from? He is the only one in the entire NT who speaks of a kingdom of heaven(s), and it's not in the LXX either (or the MT)

Is it in the DSS, perhaps? That would be very, very interesting.
Here are some data for you, expressions which are similar or synonymous whatnot:

Judith 9.12: 12 Hear, O hear me, God of my father, God of the inheritance of Israel, Lord of the heavens and the earth [δέσποτα τῶν οὐρανῶν καὶ τῆς γῆς], creator of the waters, king of all thy creation, hear my prayer!

Wisdom of Solomon 18.14-16: 14 For while gentle silence enveloped all things, and night in its swift course was now half gone, 15 Your all powerful word leaped from the heavens, from the kingly thrones [ἀπ᾽ οὐρανῶν ἐκ θρόνων βασιλείων], into the midst of the land that was doomed, a stern warrior carrying the sharp sword of Your authentic command, 16 and stood and filled all things with death, and touched heaven while standing on the earth.

Psalms of Solomon 2.30: 30 He is the king over the heavens [βασιλεὺς ἐπὶ τῶν οὐρανῶν], judging kings and rulers.

2 Maccabees 15.23: 23 So now, O sovereign of the heavens [δυνάστα τῶν οὐρανῶν], send a good angel to carry terror and trembling before us.

3 Maccabees 2.2: 2 "Lord, Lord, king of the heavens [βασιλεῦ τῶν οὐρανῶν], and sovereign of all creation, holy among the holy ones, the only ruler, almighty, give attention to us who are suffering grievously from an impious and profane man, puffed up in his audacity and power."

4Q530 (4QEnGiantsb ar), column 2, lines 16b-19a apud Florentino García Martínez & Eibert Tigchelaar: 16b The ruler of the heavens [שלטן שמיא] came down to earth, 17 and thrones were erected and the Great Holy One sa[t down. A hundred hun]dreds were serving him, a thousand thousands 18a [were ...] him, [and ten thousand times ten thousand be]fore him were standing. And behold, [book]s were opened and the sentence was proclaimed.

The Dead Sea scrolls also have:
Lord of the heavens
host of the heavens
sons of the heavens
watchers of the heavens
seat of God in the heavens
YHWH in the heavens
heavens of his kingdom
war of the heavens
word of the heavens

Mishnah, Berakhot 2.5: 5 A bridegroom [who married a virgin] is exempt from the recital of the Shema from the first night until the end of the Sabbath, if he has not consummated the marriage. It happened that when Rabban Gamliel married he recited the Shema on the first night. So his disciples said to him, “Our master, have you not taught us that a bridegroom is exempt from the recital of the Shema?” He replied to them, “I will not listen to you to remove from myself the Kingdom of the Heavens [מַלְכוּת שָׁמַיִם] even for a moment.”

I do not know of any instances specifically of "kingdom of the heavens" before the rabbinical literature (of which I have given only one instance of many) apart from the gospel texts in question, but if a "king of the heavens" holds a realm, surely that realm would be a "kingdom of the heavens," and I seriously doubt that the rabbinical writers behind the Mishnah got their usage from Matthew or other Christian texts.

As for the Greek, for my money, Matthew is probably just taking the Semitic term שמיא seriously. If he supposes that Jesus would have been speaking in Hebrew or in Aramaic, then he would naturally suppose that Jesus said "heavens" (plural) rather than "heaven" (singular).

You, Martijn, did something very similar when you learned that Matthew's original has the plural rather than the singular: you ignored the singular in many of the prevailing English translations and now rather write the plural when referring to Matthew's text. Likewise, Matthew may well simply be ignoring the singular in the prevailing Greek translations and rather writing the plural when referring to Jesus' words.

YMMV.

Ben.
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mlinssen
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Re: The kingdom of the heavens (for Martijn Linssen).

Post by mlinssen »

Ben C. Smith wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:33 am Subject: Hebrew heavens turn into Greek heaven
mlinssen wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 4:50 amWhere the hell (pun!) did Matthew get his kingdom of the heavens from? He is the only one in the entire NT who speaks of a kingdom of heaven(s), and it's not in the LXX either (or the MT)

Is it in the DSS, perhaps? That would be very, very interesting.
Here are some data for you, expressions which are similar or synonymous whatnot:

Judith 9.12: 12 Hear, O hear me, God of my father, God of the inheritance of Israel, Lord of the heavens and the earth [δέσποτα τῶν οὐρανῶν καὶ τῆς γῆς], creator of the waters, king of all thy creation, hear my prayer!

Wisdom of Solomon 18.14-16: 14 For while gentle silence enveloped all things, and night in its swift course was now half gone, 15 Your all powerful word leaped from the heavens, from the kingly thrones [ἀπ᾽ οὐρανῶν ἐκ θρόνων βασιλείων], into the midst of the land that was doomed, a stern warrior carrying the sharp sword of Your authentic command, 16 and stood and filled all things with death, and touched heaven while standing on the earth.

Psalms of Solomon 2.30: 30 He is the king over the heavens [βασιλεὺς ἐπὶ τῶν οὐρανῶν], judging kings and rulers.

2 Maccabees 15.23: 23 So now, O sovereign of the heavens [δυνάστα τῶν οὐρανῶν], send a good angel to carry terror and trembling before us.

3 Maccabees 2.2: 2 "Lord, Lord, king of the heavens [βασιλεῦ τῶν οὐρανῶν], and sovereign of all creation, holy among the holy ones, the only ruler, almighty, give attention to us who are suffering grievously from an impious and profane man, puffed up in his audacity and power."

4Q530 (4QEnGiantsb ar), column 2, lines 16b-19a apud Florentino García Martínez & Eibert Tigchelaar: 16b The ruler of the heavens [שלטן שמיא] came down to earth, 17 and thrones were erected and the Great Holy One sa[t down. A hundred hun]dreds were serving him, a thousand thousands 18a [were ...] him, [and ten thousand times ten thousand be]fore him were standing. And behold, [book]s were opened and the sentence was proclaimed.

The Dead Sea scrolls also have:
Lord of the heavens
host of the heavens
sons of the heavens
watchers of the heavens
seat of God in the heavens
YHWH in the heavens
heavens of his kingdom
war of the heavens
word of the heavens

Mishnah, Berakhot 2.5: 5 A bridegroom [who married a virgin] is exempt from the recital of the Shema from the first night until the end of the Sabbath, if he has not consummated the marriage. It happened that when Rabban Gamliel married he recited the Shema on the first night. So his disciples said to him, “Our master, have you not taught us that a bridegroom is exempt from the recital of the Shema?” He replied to them, “I will not listen to you to remove from myself the Kingdom of the Heavens [מַלְכוּת שָׁמַיִם] even for a moment.”

I do not know of any instances specifically of "kingdom of the heavens" before the rabbinical literature (of which I have given only one instance of many) apart from the gospel texts in question, but if a "king of the heavens" holds a realm, surely that realm would be a "kingdom of the heavens," and I seriously doubt that the rabbinical writers behind the Mishnah got their usage from Matthew or other Christian texts.

As for the Greek, for my money, Matthew is probably just taking the Semitic term שמיא seriously. If he supposes that Jesus would have been speaking in Hebrew or in Aramaic, then he would naturally suppose that Jesus said "heavens" (plural) rather than "heaven" (singular).

You, Martijn, did something very similar when you learned that Matthew's original has the plural rather than the singular: you ignored the singular in many of the prevailing English translations and now rather write the plural when referring to Matthew's text. Likewise, Matthew may well simply be ignoring the singular in the prevailing Greek translations and rather writing the plural when referring to Jesus' words.

YMMV.

Ben.
That is a great find Ben! I'll be digging into it

Your last paragraph is, errr, how do I put it... quite astonishing?
It seems to be supposing that Matthew has heard "kingdom of the heavens" out of the mouth of Jesus? If I read it correctly, you suggest that Matthew is using an original, and that the Greek translations use the plural?
Or are you just supposing that Matthew is supposing that the alleged Jesus supposedly spoke Aramaic?
Yet the Greek is using the plural, it is the bible translations that all ignore that, save for the Berean and Young Literal versions

Bible translations are crap, of course, just like all Thomas translations (save one or two). I'd love to read it all in English, although my Greek is getting better with the practice of the last years, and even my Latin is improving. But I'm sure as hell not going to learn Hebrew just so I can get a reliable impression of the Tanakh. Let alone Syriac / Aramaic and what not

Matthew surely didn't know any Hebrew or he wouldn't have pulled the parthenos prank. Are you serious?
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: The kingdom of the heavens (for Martijn Linssen).

Post by Ben C. Smith »

mlinssen wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:58 amYour last paragraph is, errr, how do I put it... quite astonishing?
It seems to be supposing that Matthew has heard "kingdom of the heavens" out of the mouth of Jesus?
No, nothing like that.
If I read it correctly, you suggest that Matthew is using an original, and that the Greek translations use the plural?
No.
Or are you just supposing that Matthew is supposing that the alleged Jesus supposedly spoke Aramaic?
Exactly. Or Hebrew.
Matthew surely didn't know any Hebrew or he wouldn't have pulled the parthenos prank. Are you serious?
Yes, of course I am serious. Somebody behind the gospel of Matthew had at least some knowledge of Hebrew. This much is clear from many indications. It is also, however, old news and not of interest to me here and now as a discussion topic.
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mlinssen
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Re: The kingdom of the heavens (for Ben Smith)

Post by mlinssen »

Ben C. Smith wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:14 am
mlinssen wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:58 amMatthew surely didn't know any Hebrew or he wouldn't have pulled the parthenos prank. Are you serious?
Yes, of course I am serious. Somebody behind the gospel of Matthew had at least some knowledge of Hebrew. This much is clear from many indications. It is also, however, old news and not of interest to me here and now as a discussion topic.
You sound exactly like the gospel writers when they get tired of their own lying and conclude with "and many such other things" blahblahblah

This is a perfect example of the Churchian logic: Jesus had an Aramaic background so we Churchians must argue for the existence of an Aramaic gospel (source). People do the same to Thomas, and it is hilarious - Nicholas Perrin being one of the saddest examples there

But I thank you for your research, it concludes my search and it indeed seems that there are only two choices: either Matthew came up with 'kingdom of the heavens', likely based on Solomon and chums, and Thomas copied it - or vice versa

If we then merely glance at the parable of the net alone, the direction of dependence is brutally clear, so the outcome is evident: Matthew copied Thomas with regards to 'kingdom of the heavens'

And Matthew highly likely is Roman, likely Justin Martyr - and certainly doesn't know anything about Hebrew or Aramaic. The Hebrew Gospel hypothesis was abandoned ages ago, for good reasons: there are more traces of Latin loanwords in the gospels than Aramaic ones (always funny how suddenly the word 'Semitic' is used in that case in order to spread the chances, pretty much identical to the use of the word 'Jew' when pointing to Jesus, in order to avoid the obvious conclusion that he certainly wasn't Judean, and hated Pharisees while detesting Judaic habit)

Anyway. I digress
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