I'm afraid that I've found a major flaw in my 72 logia, and that is the fact that I don't wonder about Luke deviating so strongly from Mark almost every time, because it is my working thesis that it was Luke's job to address the Thomasine audience
Mark still does show the signs of a first copier here and there, over explaining stuff, but he drops the "fast" of Luke 5:33 in his own 2:18, and likewise the "old is better" of Luke 5:39 doesn't follow on his 2:22
The fasting is due to copying Marcion
viewtopic.php?p=39309#p39309 - or of course Luke copied Thomas and then Marcion copied Luke? Not highly likely.
"Old is good (xrestos)" is a Lukan invention, unattested for in Thomas or Marcion
I'm on mobile today, hard to compare everything, but I'll try to do some rework later. And boot the WEB translation, it really is not very good - but then again I wrote this paper 1.5 years ago
[Later addition]
Right. Just gonna do them one by one
45 said IS not-usually they collect grape outward in acacia (Acacia nilotica)
Nor not-usually they gather fig from leucacanthus ("thorn of camel")not-usually they give Fruit
Indeed a(n) Good-one become-man continue-to he resemble a(n) Good from his treasure
a(n) Evil-one become-man continue-to he resemble some(PL) Wicked-thing from his treasure
wickedness who/which in his heart/mind and he say of some(PL) Wicked-thing from Indeed the.greater-part of the.heart/mind continue-to he produce of some(PL) Wicked-thing
Luke 6:43 For there is no good tree that produces rotten fruit; nor again a rotten tree that produces good fruit. 44 For each tree is known by its own fruit. For people don't gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush. 45 The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings out that which is good, and the evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings out that which is evil, for out of the abundance of the heart, his mouth speaks.
What is this now? Luke once more turns to the literal copy of Thomas, but didn't Mark do his best to twist and turn logion 45 into original sin by leaving out the so exceptionally essential and equitable 45b? Check it out:
Mark 7:17 When he had entered into a house away from the multitude, his disciples asked him about the parable. 18 He said to them, "Are you also without understanding? Don't you perceive that whatever goes into the man from outside can't defile him, 19 because it doesn't go into his heart, but into his stomach, then into the latrine, making all foods clean?"20 He said, "That which proceeds out of the man, that defiles the man. 21 For from within, out of the hearts of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, sexual sins, murders, thefts, 22 covetings, wickedness, deceit, lustful desires, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, and foolishness.
It can be argued that Mark's is more a copy of the last phrase of logion 14
he-who will go Indeed inward in your(PL.F) mouth he will defile you(r)(PL) not Rather he-who come-forth in your(PL.F) mouth he he-who will defile you(r)(PL)
but the heart and stomach and such, the entire reasoning behind the statement - that is not from logion 14 nor inspired by it
Matthew opts for an entirely different metaphor:
Matthew 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves. 16 By their fruits you will know them. Do you gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree produces good fruit, but the corrupt tree produces evil fruit. 18 A good tree can't produce evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that doesn't grow good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
It is perfectly balanced! Wow, that's exceptional.
But he gets a second chance:
Matthew 12:33 "Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree corrupt and its fruit corrupt; for the tree is known by its fruit. 34 You offspring of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. 35 The good man out of his good treasure brings out good things, and the evil man out of his evil treasure brings out evil things. 36 I tell you that every idle word that men speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
The context of chapter 7 is false prophets who can be recognised by their (bad) fruits and will be cut down and thrown into the fire at, presumably, a given point in time. There presumably are also good prophets so Matthew is in need of a comparison between good and bad - fair enough.
Matthew's rebound however comes in chapter 15 when he elaborates on his own 15:11, a literal copy of 14c which in Thomas also has no context in itself, just like 45c:
Matthew 15:10 He summoned the multitude, and said to them, "Hear, and understand. 11 That which enters into the mouth doesn't defile the man; but that which proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man."
(...)
17 Don't you understand that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the belly and then out of the body? 18 But the things which proceed out of the mouth come out of the heart, and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, sexual sins, thefts, false testimony, and blasphemies. 20 These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands doesn't defile the man."
Matthew sets the record straight, according to the Church agenda - all words that leave the mouth are evil because they come from the heart, that is all evil
This is a tie here, I think. What does Marcion have?
viewtopic.php?p=39311#p39311
That's exactly (enough) what Luke has. I think this one is undecided: Mark has enough reason to drop the stupid balanced act, and Matthew has enough reason to use it when it suits him
Next is the JtB scene, it is verbatim Thomasine and I have little to add to that - plenty of posts on that one. Logion 78 in Luke 7:24 and logion 46 in Luke 7:26. There's no Mark in either so it's not interesting anyway
The sower is in Luke 8:4 and that's been discussed
62 said IS : I say of my(PL) Mystery to they-who be-worthy of my(PL) Mystery he-who your(F) right-hand will make-be he there-is-not to-cause your(F) left-hand understand : she/r make-be they
Mark 4:10 When he was alone, those who were around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. 11 He said to them, "To you is given the mystery of God's Kingdom, but to those who are outside, all things are done in parables, 12 that 'seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest perhaps they should turn again, and their sins should be forgiven them.'"
Luke 8:9 Then his disciples asked him, "What does this parable mean?" 10 He said, "To you it is given to know the mysteries of God's Kingdom, but to the rest in parables; that 'seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.'
Note the plural in Luke which is Thomasine, and it is unlikely that Mark would make it singular and Luke would revert to the plural again. Nothing in Marcion, alas
One of the greatest jokes in Thomas, completely misunderstood - and a very great hint at the provenance of the gospels
33 said IS he-who you will hear as-regards he in your ear in the other ear proclaim within he from-upon your(PL.PL) roof
not-usually anyone Indeed ignite candlestick and/or he place he toward ear
Nor not-usually he place he in place he been-hidden
Rather continue-to he place he from-upon the(F) Lampstand in-order-that every-one who/which go-inward and who/which about-to-come outward they will behold to his light
Mark 4:21 He said to them, "Is the lamp brought to be put under a basket or under a bed? Isn't it put on a stand?
Luke 8:16 "No one, when he has lit a lamp, covers it with a container, or puts it under a bed; but puts it on a stand, that those who enter in may see the light.
Matthew 5:15 Neither do you light a lamp and put it under a measuring basket, but on a stand; and it shines to all who are in the house.
You don't light a lamp and then hold it to your ear: to your eye, ya dummy! It is hilarious, but they didn't get it. The Coptic word is ⲙⲁⲁϫⲉ,
https://coptic-dictionary.org/results.c ... e&lang=any
And as you can see it is a homonym, meaning either ear or 'a measure'. I'm quite familiar with Crum now and he has easily over a dozen words that could mean measure but which get a question mark behind them because he's unsure. I guess he didn't have a sense of humour either
Now it gets interesting, because the word in the Synoptics is a
Latin loanword, modius.
Luke 8:16 Οὐδεὶς (No one) δὲ (now) λύχνον (a lamp) ἅψας (having lighted), καλύπτει (covers) αὐτὸν (it) σκεύει (with a vessel), ἢ (or) ὑποκάτω (under) κλίνης (a bed) τίθησιν (puts it)
Mark 4:21 Καὶ (And) ἔλεγεν (He was saying) αὐτοῖς (to them) 〈ὅτι〉 (-), “Μήτι (Not) ἔρχεται (is brought in) ὁ (the) λύχνος (lamp) ἵνα (so that) ὑπὸ (under) τὸν (the) μόδιον (basket) τεθῇ (it might be put), ἢ (or) ὑπὸ (under) τὴν (the) κλίνην (bed)?
Matthew 5:15 οὐδὲ (Nor) καίουσιν (do they light) λύχνον (a lamp) καὶ (and) τιθέασιν (put) αὐτὸν (it) ὑπὸ (under) τὸν (-) μόδιον (a basket), ἀλλ’ (but) ἐπὶ (upon) τὴν (the) λυχνίαν (lampstand), καὶ (and) λάμπει (it shines) πᾶσιν (for all) τοῖς (those) ἐν (in) τῇ (the) οἰκίᾳ (house).
A modius (
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... try=modius) can hold 8.5 litres of grain - and Luke has σκεύει (
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/mor ... skeu%3Dos0) - a thingy, so to say: a vessel or implement of any kind, Ar., Thuc., etc.:—pl. in collective sense, furniture, house-gear, utensils, chattels
The only residue from Marcion that we have is καλύπτει, "covers". So Marcion also didn't get it - but it is very plausible that he had σκεύει and that Luke just copied it, whereas Mark and Matthew, being written by Romans, inserted the Roman loanword because it's not a very helpful word.
The exact same will happen with yet another Coptic homonym,
https://coptic-dictionary.org/entry.cgi?tla=C5883
This is an even more extraordinary word as it's technically not a homonym but simply can have two entirely different meanings: summer, and tax. Logion 100, of course.
Matthew 22:17 uses κῆνσον, the Greek loanword for the Roman census. Mark 4:14 does the same. Luke 20:22?
φόρον,
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... 3Dfo%2Fros
Marcion has the scene but we don't have the word, yet I'm willing to bet a limb or two in what it said
I think we have a pretty decent reasonable doubt here. What say you?