Marcion and Thomas in all of Luke

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mlinssen
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Re: Marcion and Thomas in all of Luke

Post by mlinssen »

Stuart wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 8:40 am You have gone a bridge too far, much like Stephen Huller (Secret Alias) in creating a false dichotomy with reading Tertullian. It's not a case of always faithful or never faithful. Many things are at play, especially in a long work where a writer is trying to keep their train of thought over perhaps absolute accuracy.

In the main Tertullian reports faithfully text before him.
Indeed. Very faithfully - full of the faith, to be honest.
I have just showed you all of Epiphanius, from all his "against blahblah" booklets. He isn't consistent at all, and to be honest it doesn't matter really whether it's the third day or after three days

It's rhetoric and politics, all of it. And it will always be, it's what gave birth to Christianity, and it is what keeps it alive
Do not throw the baby out with the bath water, and do not create a false dichotomy of all accurate or just wild inaccurate reporting.
The question was, and is: is Tertullian accurate enough to give us Marcion in a reliable form?

No, most certainly not - is my conclusion. Likewise for Epiphanius.
But that doesn't mean that we can't "get some" from them; a page or two / three of allegedly absent material and a page or so of likely present material that's different from Luke

That's all
Rather we should weigh their testimony
Indeed
brewskiMarc
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Not Doubting Thomas, but Didymus something?

Post by brewskiMarc »

mlinssen wrote: If I'm correct, the gospel co-creation story is a fairly simple and plain one and every next stage comes not with removing present core material, but mostly with adding more from its source, Thomas, while also adding new core material
  • Paul ignores (2) completely
  • Paul ignores (3) completely
  • Why does Mark leave those [beatitudes] out then?
  • Mark pretends to not know anything regarding (5)
I got stuck on this a bit. It kinda says, “Each next step adds and doesn’t remove. Except when it does.”

“Pretends to not know” is also little too mind-read-y for me. You don’t know if he was pretending. As for the beatitudes: you’d have to explain why Mark chose to leave them out and Luke chose to put them back in.
Paul is turning it all towards Judaism
It’s entirely possible I have been misunderstanding this all along. But I always read Paul as trying to sell Judaism to the Gentiles, not the other way around.

Those are the ones to jump out at me on first read. Oh, and there is one other thing I’d like to see:
Thomas started it all with just a text
This does you a bit of disservice. Keep going with it. I doubt that whoever compiled Thomas did so in a vacuum. The quotes didn’t come out of nowhere. (Neither do I believe they were all spoken by one person at any one time.)

It almost looks like our choice is:
  • Someone gathered up a bunch of quotes he liked, attributed them to some name, put them in a collection and then got lucky that an audience formed and decided to expand on it. Or,
  • There was some existing group of people (however loosely connected) who thought some guy had sayings and wisdom and wouldn’t it be nice to gather them all together?
In short, you would need to know more about what inspired the compiler of Thomas beyond “Tao-like Eastern thought of non-duality”. Like specifically what inspired him? (And no, am not suggesting any real-life IS. But I think it will tell us a lot about how the material was treated and why.) What were his sources? Where did the quotes he compiled come from? And then, apply your technique of Next Step and what did he add?:

Thomas Compiler

TC takes individual saying, quotes, anecdotes, etc and compiles them into a volume.
TC (possibly) is the first to attribute some of all of these to IS.
CONTRIBUTION of the Compiler is unknown. (Can we isolate quotes that are unique vs any that we find, for example, in that Eastern thought?)
MOTIVATION of the Compiler is unknown. (To preserve and reference popular saying in some community perhaps?)
OPPORTUNITY of the Compiler is unknown. (I’ll buy that it is before 70 CE, though.)

Thanks for the read. I will go back over it all again in a bit.

Marc
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Re: Not Doubting Thomas, but Didymus something?

Post by mlinssen »

brewskiMarc wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:43 am
mlinssen wrote: If I'm correct, the gospel co-creation story is a fairly simple and plain one and every next stage comes not with removing present core material, but mostly with adding more from its source, Thomas, while also adding new core material
  • Paul ignores (2) completely
  • Paul ignores (3) completely
  • Why does Mark leave those [beatitudes] out then?
  • Mark pretends to not know anything regarding (5)
I got stuck on this a bit. It kinda says, “Each next step adds and doesn’t remove. Except when it does.”
Fair enough. It's not as binary as you put it; the remark was in the context of Marcion who is accused of removing all the material that connects Jesus to Judaism. So it's not about either-or, it is about quality (does it involve primary or important material, or that of a lesser kind) and quantity (does it form a major minor (sic) part, or does it concern a handful of verses)
“Pretends to not know” is also little too mind-read-y for me. You don’t know if he was pretending. As for the beatitudes: you’d have to explain why Mark chose to leave them out and Luke chose to put them back in.
That would assume that they were available to Mark
Paul is turning it all towards Judaism
It’s entirely possible I have been misunderstanding this all along. But I always read Paul as trying to sell Judaism to the Gentiles, not the other way around.
He's doing both, really. But the stuff about circumcision, not abolishing the law, and everything Judaic in Paul - no Gentile could ever have cared for that

Those are the ones to jump out at me on first read. Oh, and there is one other thing I’d like to see:
Thomas started it all with just a text
This does you a bit of disservice. Keep going with it. I doubt that whoever compiled Thomas did so in a vacuum. The quotes didn’t come out of nowhere. (Neither do I believe they were all spoken by one person at any one time.)
That would assume that they were quotes. Spoken. By a person. That's 3 assumptions on top of each other. Can't it just be an imaginary play? Do you think Odyssey was real?
It almost looks like our choice is:
  • Someone gathered up a bunch of quotes he liked, attributed them to some name, put them in a collection and then got lucky that an audience formed and decided to expand on it. Or,
  • There was some existing group of people (however loosely connected) who thought some guy had sayings and wisdom and wouldn’t it be nice to gather them all together?
In short, you would need to know more about what inspired the compiler of Thomas beyond “Tao-like Eastern thought of non-duality”. Like specifically what inspired him? (And no, am not suggesting any real-life IS. But I think it will tell us a lot about how the material was treated and why.) What were his sources? Where did the quotes he compiled come from? And then, apply your technique of Next Step and what did he add?:
Those are the right questions. And the answer is: basically everything LOL. I could try to compact my 100-page Thomas Commentary here, but he read Philo, Plato, knew his Tanakh inside out, knew most of but all Greek works, and a bit about Egypt

He teaches about the Ego and Self, the two that we create when young. And to make those two one.
He rejects any and all religion, continuously, and has the disciples portrayed as ignorant clowns who can't get out of their religious mental models.
He gets deeply, deeply philosophical, for instance in the payable of the net, the sower and the mustard seed, while demonstrating at the same time what Seeking is, and how it must be done. He also sets out in 5 sets of 3 parables how the entire Quest will unfold, and what and where the pitfalls are.
Basically, he tells everyone to rebel, to go astray. To not walk The Path, because it leads to nothing.
He is polemic, hostile, vehemently anti religious. Nothing better to create a movement than a mutual enemy - nothing connects and binds or glues better than that
Thomas Compiler

TC takes individual saying, quotes, anecdotes, etc and compiles them into a volume.
You still can't shake the core of the story you have been programmed with, can you? This is a story, an enormously intricate work of poetry, made up from A through Z. Nothing in it ever happened for real - there are no sayings or quotes
TC (possibly) is the first to attribute some of all of these to IS.
CONTRIBUTION of the Compiler is unknown. (Can we isolate quotes that are unique vs any that we find, for example, in that Eastern thought?)
MOTIVATION of the Compiler is unknown. (To preserve and reference popular saying in some community perhaps?)
OPPORTUNITY of the Compiler is unknown. (I’ll buy that it is before 70 CE, though.)

Thanks for the read. I will go back over it all again in a bit.

Marc
You have to go beyond it all. What you are looking at, and what you have in your mind, basically is the same story that the nazis told the Germans about the Jews - with great success, of course. But there was not a grain of truth in it, nothing. Everything, from beginning to end, is a lie

I've been around for a while in Thomas circles. Forums, emails, discussions, all that. I've left it long ago, because even they can't shed the Christian skin. Even they still want to believe that there was a Jesus, no matter how minimal, no matter how far removed from the canonical Jesus.
Somehow, he has to exist

He doesn't. We're like the monkeys in the cage who have heard that you get the firehose up your ass when you climb up and reach for the banana.
But no one has ever tried
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Re: Not Doubting Thomas, but Didymus something?

Post by brewskiMarc »

mlinssen wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:35 am what you have in your mind
Ok, I wanna start with this one. It’s a really bad plan to tell me what’s going on in my mind. Mr. Alias kept doing that to me.

In fact, you have me quite wrong. I am not influenced one bit by the traditional Jesus stories, I am skeptical that he existed and frankly it wouldn’t make the slightest difference to me one way or another if he did. Please stop trying to paint my remarks as the result of someone biased by old religious ties.

Now, on to your response:
It's not as binary as you put it
I am suggesting that it is you who should phrase it less binary. Tone down the absolutes. For example, “comes with removing less core material” rather than “comes not with removing present core material.”
That would assume that they were available to Mark
It was your question, not mine.
Marcion: creates the beatitudes (he sticks to the Thomasine "blessed are those" versus "you"). Why does Mark leave those out then?
Marcion had (or created) them. Luke had them. Your theory is that Mark sits between them. Why are they missing from Mark? I am only pointing out that if we go in the sequence you propose, there is material not in the later which is in the earlier.
But the stuff about circumcision, not abolishing the law, and everything Judaic in Paul - no Gentile could ever have cared for that
Really? My parents were Gentiles and went with circumcision 7 times. Those absolutes likes “no one ever” are tempting but you really should try to avoid them.
That would assume that they were quotes. Spoken. By a person.
[sigh] I made no such assumption. I just didn’t use the correct terminology.

Let me try again:
  • I doubt that whoever compiled Thomas did so in a vacuum. The logia didn’t come out of nowhere. (Neither do I believe they were all attributable to one person at any one time.)
Note in the part I highlighted that I explicitly stated I do not believe in the single-person origin.
You still can't shake the core of the story you have been programmed with, can you? This is a story, an enormously intricate work of poetry, made up from A through Z. Nothing in it ever happened for real - there are no sayings or quotes
When I write, “So-and-So said,” what follows is a quote! It doesn’t matter if so-and-so existed! We recite quotes from Shakespearean characters all the time! I quote Sheldon Cooper all the time.

Either I am doing a poor job of making my point or you’re only hearing what you think I mean to say.

Whoever compiled Thomas did so for a reason. He picked particular logia. With a particular theme. IMO for a particular audience (because that is how most people act.) Then why? What was the point and purpose? And for whom? You want to get to the origins, why are you stopping with the first compilation? Go back further.

I am not sure why you’re interpreting my interest in learning what prompted the compilation as "I can't except a non-Jesus origin," or possibly you're interpreting it as “I can’t accept your theory."

m
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Re: Not Doubting Thomas, but Didymus something?

Post by mlinssen »

brewskiMarc wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:45 am Either I am doing a poor job of making my point or you’re only hearing what you think I mean to say.
Likely, both - the answer usually is both
Whoever compiled Thomas did so for a reason. He picked particular logia. With a particular theme. IMO for a particular audience (because that is how most people act.) Then why? What was the point and purpose? And for whom? You want to get to the origins, why are you stopping with the first compilation? Go back further.

I am not sure why you’re interpreting my interest in learning what prompted the compilation as "I can't except a non-Jesus origin," or possibly you're interpreting it as “I can’t accept your theory."

m
Let's pick Homer, Odyssey
  • Whoever compiled Odyssey did so for a reason.
    • Indeed, he wanted to write a story. A long one, too
  • He picked particular "logia".
    • Indeed he did, didn't he? He picked all that he picked, and those that he didn't pick, did not get picked. It's amazing
  • With a particular theme.
    • Indeed! A bit of history in there, heroics, drama. Sketching the scenery, a walk in the park they call Greece+, something like that
  • IMO for a particular audience (because that is how most people act.)
    • Undoubtedly so! The level of the language and choice of words raise or lower the bar, usually, including the choice of language. Then the themes and background drive a certain demarcation of an audience
  • Then why?
    • He was bored? Had a great ego? Thought he had to tell the world something?
  • What was the point and purpose?
    • That may even be irrelevant, the point is what the audience thought of it, and what it became. A story never exists on paper, only in the heads of people - it is they who make and live a story. Pretty much like the NT really: read it and you'll be amazed that it actually is believed, let alone at the scale that it is. And when you talk to religious people, you'll notice that hardly any of them have read much of the NT
  • And for whom?
    • See the previous answer
  • You want to get to the origins, why are you stopping with the first compilation? Go back further.
    • Say what? Why do you assume that there is anything further than the first point of creation? Do you think that Harry Potter precedes JK Rowling in any way?
I'm not trying to be obnoxious, I am trying to demonstrate that your questions are driven by something beyond regular, neutral and objective interest - you seem to not be standing on ground zero.

I will answer your questions with regard to Thomas now:

- Thomas wrote his text in order to give people a tool for salvation - from religion, themselves, and suffering in general.
In order to do that, he created this imaginary play / setting just like Homer did, and countless other writers
- Setting: typical Judean and Judaic one, around 1 BCE - 1 or 2 CE just about (Roman occupation = post quem, Pharisees = post and ante quem. Destruction of Temple is real ante quem)
- Theme: Platonic ones, Hellenic ones, religio-spiritual ones. Light/dark, life-death, very agriculturally oriented, hunger-eating, thirst-drunken, old-new, infant-old man, to name a few
- Audience: small, well educated. Not a text to just throw over the wall; very cryptic and couldn't be left unattended
- Point and purpose: to set people free. To give them (back) control over their life, to have them reject religion, Judeans, Judaism. To make them independent in general, superior, FREE
- This is the origin. This text started with Thomas, and is a curious mix of Tao-like ideas mixed with Hellenic ones. I know of no text like it, so I can't go back. This is it, this is the very source. Inspiration from others, yes, but almost all of the text is a refutation of what others have claimed.
This is it, this is the origin - the first compilation is the origin
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Re: Not Doubting Thomas, but Didymus something?

Post by brewskiMarc »

You know what? I had a whole bunch of clarifications and questions written up. But I’ve just deleted them all.

This line did it.
mlinssen wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:31 amIndeed he did, didn't he? He picked all that he picked, and those that he didn't pick, did not get picked. It's amazing
Instead of trying to engage with me and help me understand what’s bugging me about it, you went with condescension.

I’m too old and tired for that.

Thank you for some nice conversations, but I think you’re right and it’s probably both: I am doing a poor job of making my point and you’re only hearing what you think I mean to say.

Take care,
Marc
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Re: Not Doubting Thomas, but Didymus something?

Post by mlinssen »

brewskiMarc wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:22 am You know what? I had a whole bunch of clarifications and questions written up. But I’ve just deleted them all.

This line did it.
mlinssen wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:31 amIndeed he did, didn't he? He picked all that he picked, and those that he didn't pick, did not get picked. It's amazing
Instead of trying to engage with me and help me understand what’s bugging me about it, you went with condescension.

I’m too old and tired for that.

Thank you for some nice conversations, but I think you’re right and it’s probably both: I am doing a poor job of making my point and you’re only hearing what you think I mean to say.

Take care,
Marc
The passive-aggresive, my favourite! And even including a guilt trip, how nice

Be-bye
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Re: Only that of Marcion which is Thomas (plus all of Luke which also is)

Post by mlinssen »


Quickie, have to see whether it really helps:

- Only those parts of Marcion that are Thomasine
- Plus everything else of Thomas that can be found in Luke, so we know what the differences are between the three, with Thomas being the pivotal point

Luke 3.1-38, John the baptist, the preaching and imprisonment of John, the baptism and genealogy of Jesus.
Luke 4.31-37, teaching with authority and the exorcism of the Capernaum demoniac.
Luke 4.16-30, rejection at Nazareth.
+ 23 He said to them, “Doubtless you will tell me this parable, (31) Physician, heal yourself! (-31) Whatever we have heard done at Capernaum, do also here in your hometown.’ ”
+ 24 He said, “Most certainly I tell you, (31) no prophet is acceptable in his hometown. (-31)
Luke 4.38-44, the healing of the mother-in-law of Peter, the evening healings, departing from Capernaum, and in the synagogues.
Luke 5.1-11, the call of the first disciples.
Luke 5.12-16, the healing of a leper.
Luke 5.17-26, the healing of a paralytic.
Luke 5.27-32, the call of Levi, tax collectors and sinners.
+ 30 (14) Their scribes and the Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, “Why do you eat and drink with the tax collectors and sinners?
+ 31 Jesus answered them, “Those who are healthy have no need for a physician, but those who are sick do. (14)
Luke 5.33-39, the controversy over fasting.
+ 33 They said to him, (104) “Why do John’s disciples often fast and pray, likewise also the disciples of the Pharisees, but yours eat and drink?
+ 34 He said to them, The friends of the bridechamber cannot fast as long as [Marcion: while] the bridegroom is with them, can they?
+ 35 But the days will come when the bridegroom will be taken away from them. Then they will fast in those days.” (-104)
+ 36 He also told a parable to them. (47)“No one puts a piece of unshrunk fabric from a new garment on an old garment, or else he will tear the new, and also the piece from the new will not match the old.
+ 37 No one puts new wine into old wine skins, or else the new wine will burst the skins, and it will be spilled, and the skins will be destroyed.
+ 38 But new wine must be put into fresh wine skins, and both are preserved.
+ 39 No man having drunk old wine immediately desires new, (-47) for he says, ‘The old is better.’ ”
Luke 6.1-11, plucking grain on the sabbath, the healing of a man with a withered hand.
Luke 6.12-26, the commission of the twelve, the sermon on the plain, a great multitude, the beatitudes, the woes.
+ 20 He lifted up his eyes to his disciples, and said, (54)“Blessed are you [Marcion: the] who are poor, God’s Kingdom is yours [Marcion: theirs(-54)].
+ 21 (69) Blessed are you [Marcion: they] who hunger now, for you [Marcion: they] will be filled. (-69) Blessed are you [Marcion: they] who weep now, for you [Marcion: they] will laugh.
+ 22 (68) Blessed are you when men shall hate you, and when they shall exclude (-68) and mock you, and throw out your name as evil, for the Son of Man’s sake.
Luke 6.27-36, on revenge and enemies.
+ 34 (95) If you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back again, (-95) what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to receive back as much.
Luke 6.37-49, on judgment, by their fruits, do as I say, the parable of the wise and foolish builders.
+ 39 He spoke a parable to them. (34) “Can the blind guide the blind? Won’t they both fall into a pit? (-34)
+ 41 (26) Why do you see the speck of chaff that is in your brother’s eye, but don’t consider the beam that is in your own eye?
+ 42 Or how can you tell your brother, ‘Brother, let me remove the speck of chaff that is in your eye,’ when you yourself don’t see the beam that is in your own eye? You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck of chaff that is in your brother’s eye. (-26)
+ 43 (43) For there is no good tree that produces rotten fruit; nor again a rotten tree that produces good fruit. (-43)
+ 44 For each tree is known by its own fruit. (45) For people don’t gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush.
+ 45 The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings out that which is good, and the evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings out that which is evil, for out of the abundance of the heart, his mouth speaks. (-45)
Luke 7.1-17, the healing at the request of a centurion, the raising of the dead son in Nain.
Luke 7.18-35, the inquiry of John the baptist.
+ 24 When John’s messengers had departed, he began to tell the multitudes about John, (78) “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind?
+ 25 But what did you go out to see? A man clothed in soft clothing? Behold, those who are gorgeously dressed, and live delicately, are in kings’ courts.
+ 26 But what did you go out to see? A prophet? (-78) Yes, I tell you, and much more than a prophet.
+ 28 “For I tell you, (46) among those who are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptizer, yet he who is least in God’s Kingdom is greater than he.” (-46)
+ 31 (21) “To what then should I compare the people of this generation? What are they like?
+ 32 They are like children who sit in the marketplace (-21)
, and call to one another, saying, ‘We piped to you, and you didn’t dance. We mourned, and you didn’t weep.’
Luke 7.36-50, the anointing of Jesus.
Luke 8.1-18, the female followers of Jesus, by the lake, the parable of the sower and explanation, the mysteries of the kingdom, on the nature of parables.
+ 5 (9) “The farmer went out to sow his seed. As he sowed, some fell along the road, and it was trampled under foot, and the birds of the sky devoured it.
+ 6 Other seed fell on the rock, and as soon as it grew, it withered away, because it had no moisture.
+ 7 Other fell amid the thorns, and the thorns grew with it, and choked it.

+ 8 Other fell into the good ground, and grew, and produced one hundred times as much fruit.” As he said these things, he called out, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear!” (9)
+ 10 (62) He said, “To you it is given to know the mysteries (-62) of God’s Kingdom, but to the rest in parables; that ‘seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.’
+ 16 (33) “No one, when he has lit a lamp, covers it with a container, or puts it under a bed; but puts it on a stand, that those who enter in may see the light. (-33)
+ 17 (6) For nothing is hidden that will not be revealed; nor anything secret that will not be known and come to light. (-6)
+ 18 Be careful therefore how you hear. (41) For whoever has, to him will be given; and whoever doesn’t have, from him will be taken away even that which he thinks he has.” (-41)
Luke 8.19-25, the family of Jesus, the calming of the lake.
+ 21 (99) But he answered them,My mother and my brothers are these who hear the word of God, and do it. [Marcion: Who is my mother and who are my brothers except these who hear my words and do them?]” (-99)
Luke 8.26-39, the exorcism of the Gadarene demoniac.
Luke 8.40-56, the raising of the daughter of Jairus, the healing of a hemorrhaging woman.
Luke 9.1-11, the mission of the twelve, John the baptist risen.
+ 2 (14) He sent them out to preach God’s Kingdom and to heal the sick.
+ 4 Into whatever house you enter, stay there, and depart from there.
+ 5 As many as don’t receive you, (-14) when you depart from that city, shake off even the dust from your feet for a testimony against them.
Luke 9.12-17, the feeding of the five thousand.
Luke 9.18-27, who do you say that I am, the first passion prediction, take up your cross, finding and losing, before my father.
+ 20 (13) He said to them,But who do you say that I am?Peter answered,The Christ of God [Marcion: you are the Christ].” (-13)
+ 23 (55) He said to all, “If anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. (-55)
Luke 9.28-36, the transfiguration.
Luke 9.37-50, the exorcism of a boy, the second passion prediction, receiving the sender, for or against us.
Luke 9.51-62, journeying to Jerusalem, fire from heaven, following Jesus.
+ 58 (86) Jesus said to him, “The foxes have holes, and the birds of the sky have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.” (-86)
Luke 10.1-20, the mission of the seventy, woe to the cities, receiving the sender, the fall of Satan.
+ 2 (73) Then he said to them, “The harvest is indeed plentiful, but the laborers are few. Pray therefore to the Lord of the harvest, that he may send out laborers into his harvest. (-73)
+ 5 (14) Into whatever house you enter, first say, ‘Peace be to this house.’
+ 7 Remain in that same house, eating and drinking the things they give, for the laborer is worthy of his wages. Don’t go from house to house.
+ 8 Into whatever city you enter, and they receive you, eat the things that are set before you.
+ 9 Heal the sick who are therein, (-14) and tell them,God’s Kingdom has come near to you.’
Luke 10.21-42, revealed to babes, blessed are your eyes and ears, the greatest commandment, the good Samaritan, Mary and Martha.
+ 23 Turning to the disciples, (38) he said privately, “Blessed are the eyes which see the things that you see,
+ 24 for I tell you that many prophets and kings desired to see the things which you see, and didn’t see them, and to hear the things which you hear, and didn’t hear them.” (-38)
+ 27 He answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; (25) and your neighbor as yourself.”(-25)
Luke 11.1-13, the paternoster, a friend at midnight, ask, seek, knock.
+ 9 “I tell you, keep asking, and it will be given you. (94) Keep seeking, and you will find. Keep knocking, and it will be opened to you.
+ 10 For everyone who asks receives. He who seeks finds. To him who knocks it will be opened. (-94)
Luke 11.14-28, the controversy over Beezebul, the seven spirits, blessed the womb and breasts.
+ 21 (21) “When the strong man, fully armed, guards his own dwelling, his goods are safe. (21)
+ 22 (35) But when someone stronger attacks him and overcomes him, he takes from him his whole armor in which he trusted, and divides his plunder. (35)
+ 27 It came to pass, as he said these things, (79) a certain woman out of the multitude lifted up her voice, and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts which nursed you!”
+ 28 But he said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God, and keep [Marcion: do] it.” (-79)
Luke 11.29-54, the sign of Jonah, the lamp of the body, woe to the Pharisees and lawyers.
+ 33 (33) “No one, when he has lit a lamp, puts it in a cellar or under a basket, but on a stand, that those who come in may see the light [Marcion: it might shine on all]. (-33)
+ 34 (24) The lamp of the body is the eye. Therefore when your eye is good, your whole body is also full of light; but when it is evil, your body also is full of darkness.
+ 35 Therefore see whether the light that is in you isn’t darkness.
+ 36 If therefore your whole body is full of light, having no part dark, it will be wholly full of light (24), as when the lamp with its bright shining gives you light.”

+ 39 The Lord [or: Jesus] said to him,Now you Pharisees (89) cleanse the outside of the cup and of the platter, but your inward part (-89) is full of extortion and wickedness.
+ 40 You foolish ones, (89) didn’t he who made the outside make the inside also?(-89)
+ 42 (102) But woe to you Pharisees! (-102) For you tithe mint and rue and every herb, but you bypass justice and God’s love. You ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone.
+ 43 (102) Woe to you Pharisees! (-102) For you love the best seats in the synagogues, and the greetings in the marketplaces.
+ 52 Woe to you (39) lawyers! For you took away the key of knowledge. You didn’t enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in, you hindered.”(-39)
Luke 12.1-9, the leaven of the Pharisees, fear not, before the angels.
+ 2 (6) But there is nothing covered up that will not be revealed, nor anything hidden that will not be known. (-6)
+ 3 (33) Therefore whatever you have said in the darkness will be heard in the light. What you have spoken in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed on the housetops. (-33)
Luke 12.10-21, the sin against the spirit, delivered up, who made me judge, the parable of the rich fool.
+ 10 (44) Everyone who speaks [Marcion: should speak] a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but those who blaspheme [Marcion: should speak] against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. (-44)
+ 13 One of the multitude said to him, (72) “Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.
+ 14 But he said to him, “Man, who made me a judge ~or an arbitrator~ over you?” (-72)
+ 16 He spoke a parable to them, saying, (63) “The ground of a certain rich man produced abundantly.
+ 17 He reasoned within himself, saying, ‘What will I do, because I don’t have room to store my crops?’
+ 18 He said, ‘This is what I will do. I will pull down my barns, build bigger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods.

+ 19 I will tell my soul, “Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years. Take your ease, eat, drink, and be merry.”
+ 20 “But God said to him, ‘You foolish one, tonight your soul is required of you. (-63) The things which you have prepared—whose will they be?’
Luke 12.22-40, seek first the kingdom, treasure in heaven, the parable of the wakeful servants, a thief.
+ 22 (36) He said to his disciples, “Therefore I tell you, don’t be anxious for your life, what you will eat, nor yet for your body, what you will wear.
+ 23 Life is more than food, and the body is more than clothing.
+ 24 Consider the ravens: they don’t sow, they don’t reap, they have no warehouse or barn [Marcion: nor do they gather into barns], and God feeds them. How much more valuable are you than birds!
+ 25 Which of you by being anxious can add a cubit to his height?
+ 27 Consider the lilies, how they grow. They don’t toil, neither do they spin [ML note: most of this is from Oxyrhynchus copy] (-36); yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
+ 33 (76) Sell that which you have, and give gifts to the needy. Make for yourselves purses which don’t grow old, a treasure in the heavens that doesn’t fail, where no thief approaches, neither moth destroys. (-76)
+ 39 (21) But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what hour the thief was coming, he would have watched, and not allowed his house to be broken into. (-21)
Luke 12.41-50, the parable of the faithful steward, fire on the earth.
+ 49 (10) “I came to throw fire on the earth. I wish it were already kindled. (-10)
Luke 12.51-59, not peace but a sword, discerning the times, settle on the way.
+ 51 (16) Do you think that I have come to give peace in [Marcion: to cast peace upon] the earth? I tell you, no, but rather division.
+ 52 For from now on, there will be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
+ 53 They will be divided, father against son, and son against father (-16); and mother against daughter, and daughter against her mother; and mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law, and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
+ 56 You hypocrites! (91) You know how to interpret the appearance of the earth and the sky, but how is it that you don’t know ~how~ to interpret this time? (-91)
Luke 13.10-22, the healing of a woman bent double, the parables of the mustard seed and the leaven, by cities and villages.
+ 19 (20) It [Marcion: God's Kingdom] is like a grain of mustard seed which a man took and put [Marcion: sowed] in his own garden. It grew and became a large tree, and the birds of the sky live in its branches.” (-20)
+ 20 (96) Again he said, “To what shall I compare God’s Kingdom?
+ 21 It is like yeast, which a woman took and hid in three measures of flour, until it was all leavened.” (-96)
Luke 13.23-35, broad and narrow, a prophet cannot perish, lament over Jerusalem.
+ 30 Behold, (4) there are some who are last who will be first, and there are some who are first who will be last.” (4)
Luke 14.1-14, the healing of a man with dropsy, the best seats, the resurrection of the righteous.
Luke 14.15-35, the parable of the great supper, take up your cross, counting the costs, salting the salt.
+ 16 (64) But he said to him, “A certain man made a great supper, and he invited many people.
+ 17 He sent out his servant at supper time to tell those who were invited, ‘Come, for everything is ready now.’
+ 18 They all as one began to make excuses. “The first said to him, ‘I have bought a field, and I must go and see it. Please have me excused.’
+ 20 “Another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I can’t come.’
+ 21 “That servant came, and told his lord these things. Then the master of the house, being angry [Marcion: disturbed], said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in the poor, maimed, blind, and lame.’
+ 23 “The lord said to the servant, ‘Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
+ 24 For I tell you that none of those men who were invited will taste of my supper.’ ” (-64)
+ 26 (101) “If anyone comes to me, and doesn’t disregard his own father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he can’t be my disciple. (-101)
+ 27 (55) Whoever doesn’t bear his own cross, and come after me, can’t be my disciple. (-55)

Luke 15.1-10, the parables of the lost sheep and the lost coin.
+ 4 (107) “Which of you men, if you had one hundred sheep, and lost one of them, wouldn’t leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one that was lost, until he found it? (-107)
Luke 16.1-17, the parable of the shrewd steward, the law.
+ 13 (47) No one servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to one, and despise the other. (-47) You aren’t able to serve God and Mammon.
+ 17 (11) But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one tiny stroke of a pen in the law to fall [Marcion: than for one tiny stroke of a pen in my words to pass away].(11)
Luke 16.18-31, against divorce, the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.
Luke 17.1-19, on scandals, rebuking and forgiving, forgiving seven times, unprofitable servants, the healing of ten lepers.
+ 6 The Lord said, “If you had faith like a grain of mustard seed, (48 / 106) you would tell this sycamore tree, ‘Be uprooted, and be planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you. (-48 / -106)
Luke 17.20-37, when and where, like lightning, as in the days of Noah and Lot, housetop and field, finding and losing, one taken, another left.
+ 20 (113 / 3) Being asked by the Pharisees when God’s Kingdom would come, he answered them,God’s Kingdom doesn’t come with observation;
+ 21 neither will [Marcion: do] they say, ‘Look, here!’ or, Look, there!’ for behold, God’s Kingdom is within you.” (-113 / -3)
+ 22 (38) He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.(-38)
+ 34 (61) I tell you, in that night there will be two people in one bed. One will be taken and the other will be left. (-61)
Luke 18.1-17, the parable of the widow and the judge, the parable of the tax collector and the Pharisee, suffer the children.
+ 16 Jesus summoned them, saying, “Allow the little children to come to me, and don’t hinder them, (22) for God’s [Marcion: the] Kingdom of the heavens belongs to such as these. (-22)
Luke 18.18-34, the rich ruler, forsaking all, the third passion prediction.
Luke 18.35-43, the healing of a blind man.
Luke 19.1-10, Jesus and Zacchaeus.
Luke 19.11-27, the parable of the pounds.
Luke 19.28-48, the triumphal entry, the stones will cry out, the hour of visitation, the temple incident.
+ 40 (19) He answered them, “I tell you that if these were silent, the stones would cry out.” (-19)
Luke 20.1-18, by what authority, the parable of the tenants.
+ 9 (65) He began to tell the people this parable. “A man planted a vineyard, and rented it out to some farmers, and went into another country for a long time.
+ 10 At the proper season, he sent a servant to the farmers to collect his share of the fruit of the vineyard. But the farmers beat him, and sent him away empty.
+ 11 He sent yet another servant, and they also beat him, and treated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.
+ 12 He sent yet a third, and they also wounded him, and threw him out.
+ 13 The lord of the vineyard said, ‘What shall I do? I will send my beloved son. It may be that seeing him, they will respect him.’
+ 14 “But when the farmers saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.’
+ 15 They threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. (-65) What therefore will the lord of the vineyard do to them?
+ 17 But he looked at them and said, “Then what is this that is written, (66) ‘The stone which the builders rejected was made the chief cornerstone?’ (-66)

Luke 20.19-26, render unto God.
+ 22 (100) Is it lawful for us to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?
+ 24 Show me a denarius. Whose image and inscription [or: likeness] are on it?” They answered, “Caesar’s.”
+ 25 He said to them, “Then give to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”(-100)
Luke 20.27-47, marriage in the resurrection, the son of David, beware the scribes.
Luke 21.1-11, the widow and the mites, not one stone, the signs from heaven.
+ 6 (71) “As for these things which you see, the days will come, in which there will not be left here one stone on another that will not be thrown down.” [ML note: dubious; only justified if Mark precedes Luke here] (-71)
Luke 21.12-19, delivered up.
Luke 21.20-28, the armies encircling Jerusalem, days of vengeance, coming on the clouds.
+ 23 (79) Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who nurse infants in those days! (-79) For there will be great distress in the land, and wrath to this people.
Luke 21.29-38, the second parable of the fig tree, be alert, teaching in the temple.
+ 33 (111) Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away [Marcion: remain forever]. (-111)
Luke 22.1-13, the plot to kill Jesus, preparations for the Passover.
Luke 22.14-20, bread and cup.
Luke 22.21-38, one of you will betray me, the kings of the gentiles, denials predicted, two swords.
Luke 22.39-65, Gethsemane, betrayed with a kiss, Peter at the fire, the smiting of Jesus.
Luke 22.66-71, Jesus before the Sanhedrin.
Luke 23.1-25, to Pilate, Jesus before Pilate and Herod.
Luke 23.26-43, Simon of Cyrene, daughters of Jerusalem, the crucifixion of Jesus.
+ 29 For behold, the days are coming in which they will say, (79) ‘Blessed are the barren, the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never nursed.’(-79)
Luke 23.44-56, the death of Jesus, watching from afar, the crucifixion and burial of Jesus.
Luke 24.1-12, the visit to the tomb, the announcement to the eleven, Peter at the tomb.
Luke 24.13-35, the appearance on the road.
Luke 24.36-53, the appearance to the eleven in Jerusalem, the ascension.

I still don't know what to make of this
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Leucius Charinus
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Re: Not Doubting Thomas, but Didymus something?

Post by Leucius Charinus »

mlinssen wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:35 am
///

[Thomas] read Philo, Plato, knew his Tanakh inside out, knew most of but all Greek works, and a bit about Egypt

He teaches about the Ego and Self, the two that we create when young. And to make those two one.

Thomas most certainly read Plato but with absolute certainty he never read Freud. OTOH it is pretty clear to many that Freud had read Plato and modeled his tri-partite psychology ( id, ego, and superego) on Plato's theory of the human soul. Have you compared these?
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mlinssen
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The evidence that the FF needed - yet never used

Post by mlinssen »


- Only those parts of Marcion that are Thomasine
- Plus everything else of Thomas that can be found in Luke, so we know what the differences are between the three, with Thomas being the pivotal point

What gets created this way is a purely Thomasine Marcion - that misses some Thomasine material that is in Luke, which I have subsequently added

With all the FF claiming that Marcion excised material from Luke, why didn't they jump all over the green parts here?
I mean really, we know that those are in Luke although it is highly likely that they also existed in Marcion, given their Thomasine background - but these are obvious examples of Lukan material not attested to in Marcion by the FF.
Hello! Finally a real boatload of examples of material that Marcion excised from Luke - and there are no takers at all?!

In related news, it is easy to observe how the beginning and end of Luke are "Thomas-free" and that the same goes for Marcion; and once again it is demonstrated that Thomas has nothing from any death, burial or resurrection version form any of the gospels, nor any of their beginnings - and neither does Marcion, even though the Falsifying Fathers "attested to" the latter: if those lying bastards simply omit Marcionite material because it doesn't serve their agenda, then what is the likelihood of them making up Marcionite material that does?

Oh and Pete, could you please either refrain from making a comment or make one that actually is on topic for a change? Ta

Luke 3.1-38, John the baptist, the preaching and imprisonment of John, the baptism and genealogy of Jesus.
Luke 4.31-37, teaching with authority and the exorcism of the Capernaum demoniac.
Luke 4.16-30, rejection at Nazareth.
+ 23 He said to them, “Doubtless you will tell me this parable, (31) Physician, heal yourself! (-31) Whatever we have heard done at Capernaum, do also here in your hometown.’ ”
+ 24 He said, “Most certainly I tell you, (31) no prophet is acceptable in his hometown. (-31)
Luke 4.38-44, the healing of the mother-in-law of Peter, the evening healings, departing from Capernaum, and in the synagogues.
Luke 5.1-11, the call of the first disciples.
Luke 5.12-16, the healing of a leper.
Luke 5.17-26, the healing of a paralytic.
Luke 5.27-32, the call of Levi, tax collectors and sinners.
+ 30 (14) Their scribes and the Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, “Why do you eat and drink with the tax collectors and sinners?
+ 31 Jesus answered them, “Those who are healthy have no need for a physician, but those who are sick do. (14)
Luke 5.33-39, the controversy over fasting.
+ 33 They said to him, (104) “Why do John’s disciples often fast and pray, likewise also the disciples of the Pharisees, but yours eat and drink?
+ 34 He said to them, The friends of the bridechamber cannot fast as long as [Marcion: while] the bridegroom is with them, can they?
+ 35 But the days will come when the bridegroom will be taken away from them. Then they will fast in those days.” (-104)
+ 36 He also told a parable to them. (47)“No one puts a piece of unshrunk fabric from a new garment on an old garment, or else he will tear the new, and also the piece from the new will not match the old.
+ 37 No one puts new wine into old wine skins, or else the new wine will burst the skins, and it will be spilled, and the skins will be destroyed.
+ 38 But new wine must be put into fresh wine skins, and both are preserved.
+ 39 No man having drunk old wine immediately desires new, (-47) for he says, ‘The old is better.’ ”
Luke 6.1-11, plucking grain on the sabbath, the healing of a man with a withered hand.
Luke 6.12-26, the commission of the twelve, the sermon on the plain, a great multitude, the beatitudes, the woes.
+ 20 He lifted up his eyes to his disciples, and said, (54)“Blessed are you [Marcion: the] who are poor, God’s Kingdom is yours [Marcion: theirs(-54)].
+ 21 (69) Blessed are you [Marcion: they] who hunger now, for you [Marcion: they] will be filled. (-69) Blessed are you [Marcion: they] who weep now, for you [Marcion: they] will laugh.
+ 22 (68) Blessed are you when men shall hate you, and when they shall exclude (-68) and mock you, and throw out your name as evil, for the Son of Man’s sake.
Luke 6.27-36, on revenge and enemies.
+ 34 (95) If you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back again, (-95) what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to receive back as much.
Luke 6.37-49, on judgment, by their fruits, do as I say, the parable of the wise and foolish builders.
+ 39 He spoke a parable to them. (34) “Can the blind guide the blind? Won’t they both fall into a pit? (-34)
+ 41 (26) Why do you see the speck of chaff that is in your brother’s eye, but don’t consider the beam that is in your own eye?
+ 42 Or how can you tell your brother, ‘Brother, let me remove the speck of chaff that is in your eye,’ when you yourself don’t see the beam that is in your own eye? You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck of chaff that is in your brother’s eye. (-26)
+ 43 (43) For there is no good tree that produces rotten fruit; nor again a rotten tree that produces good fruit. (-43)
+ 44 For each tree is known by its own fruit. (45) For people don’t gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush.
+ 45 The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings out that which is good, and the evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings out that which is evil, for out of the abundance of the heart, his mouth speaks. (-45)
Luke 7.1-17, the healing at the request of a centurion, the raising of the dead son in Nain.
Luke 7.18-35, the inquiry of John the baptist.
+ 24 When John’s messengers had departed, he began to tell the multitudes about John, (78) “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind?
+ 25 But what did you go out to see? A man clothed in soft clothing? Behold, those who are gorgeously dressed, and live delicately, are in kings’ courts.
+ 26 But what did you go out to see? A prophet? (-78) Yes, I tell you, and much more than a prophet.
+ 28 “For I tell you, (46) among those who are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptizer, yet he who is least in God’s Kingdom is greater than he.” (-46)
+ 31 (21) “To what then should I compare the people of this generation? What are they like?
+ 32 They are like children who sit in the marketplace (-21)
, and call to one another, saying, ‘We piped to you, and you didn’t dance. We mourned, and you didn’t weep.’
Luke 7.36-50, the anointing of Jesus.
Luke 8.1-18, the female followers of Jesus, by the lake, the parable of the sower and explanation, the mysteries of the kingdom, on the nature of parables.
+ 5 (9) “The farmer went out to sow his seed. As he sowed, some fell along the road, and it was trampled under foot, and the birds of the sky devoured it.
+ 6 Other seed fell on the rock, and as soon as it grew, it withered away, because it had no moisture.
+ 7 Other fell amid the thorns, and the thorns grew with it, and choked it.

+ 8 Other fell into the good ground, and grew, and produced one hundred times as much fruit.” As he said these things, he called out, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear!” (9)
+ 10 (62) He said, “To you it is given to know the mysteries (-62) of God’s Kingdom, but to the rest in parables; that ‘seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.’
+ 16 (33) “No one, when he has lit a lamp, covers it with a container, or puts it under a bed; but puts it on a stand, that those who enter in may see the light. (-33)
+ 17 (6) For nothing is hidden that will not be revealed; nor anything secret that will not be known and come to light. (-6)
+ 18 Be careful therefore how you hear. (41) For whoever has, to him will be given; and whoever doesn’t have, from him will be taken away even that which he thinks he has.” (-41)
Luke 8.19-25, the family of Jesus, the calming of the lake.
+ 21 (99) But he answered them,My mother and my brothers are these who hear the word of God, and do it. [Marcion: Who is my mother and who are my brothers except these who hear my words and do them?]” (-99)
Luke 8.26-39, the exorcism of the Gadarene demoniac.
Luke 8.40-56, the raising of the daughter of Jairus, the healing of a hemorrhaging woman.
Luke 9.1-11, the mission of the twelve, John the baptist risen.
+ 2 (14) He sent them out to preach God’s Kingdom and to heal the sick.
+ 4 Into whatever house you enter, stay there, and depart from there.
+ 5 As many as don’t receive you, (-14) when you depart from that city, shake off even the dust from your feet for a testimony against them.
Luke 9.12-17, the feeding of the five thousand.
Luke 9.18-27, who do you say that I am, the first passion prediction, take up your cross, finding and losing, before my father.
+ 20 (13) He said to them,But who do you say that I am?Peter answered,The Christ of God [Marcion: you are the Christ].” (-13)
+ 23 (55) He said to all, “If anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. (-55)
Luke 9.28-36, the transfiguration.
Luke 9.37-50, the exorcism of a boy, the second passion prediction, receiving the sender, for or against us.
Luke 9.51-62, journeying to Jerusalem, fire from heaven, following Jesus.
+ 58 (86) Jesus said to him, “The foxes have holes, and the birds of the sky have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.” (-86)
Luke 10.1-20, the mission of the seventy, woe to the cities, receiving the sender, the fall of Satan.
+ 2 (73) Then he said to them, “The harvest is indeed plentiful, but the laborers are few. Pray therefore to the Lord of the harvest, that he may send out laborers into his harvest. (-73)
+ 5 (14) Into whatever house you enter, first say, ‘Peace be to this house.’
+ 7 Remain in that same house, eating and drinking the things they give, for the laborer is worthy of his wages. Don’t go from house to house.
+ 8 Into whatever city you enter, and they receive you, eat the things that are set before you.
+ 9 Heal the sick who are therein, (-14) and tell them,God’s Kingdom has come near to you.’
Luke 10.21-42, revealed to babes, blessed are your eyes and ears, the greatest commandment, the good Samaritan, Mary and Martha.
+ 23 Turning to the disciples, (38) he said privately, “Blessed are the eyes which see the things that you see,
+ 24 for I tell you that many prophets and kings desired to see the things which you see, and didn’t see them, and to hear the things which you hear, and didn’t hear them.” (-38)
+ 27 He answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; (25) and your neighbor as yourself.”(-25)
Luke 11.1-13, the paternoster, a friend at midnight, ask, seek, knock.
+ 9 “I tell you, keep asking, and it will be given you. (94) Keep seeking, and you will find. Keep knocking, and it will be opened to you.
+ 10 For everyone who asks receives. He who seeks finds. To him who knocks it will be opened. (-94)
Luke 11.14-28, the controversy over Beezebul, the seven spirits, blessed the womb and breasts.
+ 21 (21) “When the strong man, fully armed, guards his own dwelling, his goods are safe. (21)
+ 22 (35) But when someone stronger attacks him and overcomes him, he takes from him his whole armor in which he trusted, and divides his plunder. (35)
+ 27 It came to pass, as he said these things, (79) a certain woman out of the multitude lifted up her voice, and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts which nursed you!”
+ 28 But he said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God, and keep [Marcion: do] it.” (-79)
Luke 11.29-54, the sign of Jonah, the lamp of the body, woe to the Pharisees and lawyers.
+ 33 (33) “No one, when he has lit a lamp, puts it in a cellar or under a basket, but on a stand, that those who come in may see the light [Marcion: it might shine on all]. (-33)
+ 34 (24) The lamp of the body is the eye. Therefore when your eye is good, your whole body is also full of light; but when it is evil, your body also is full of darkness.
+ 35 Therefore see whether the light that is in you isn’t darkness.
+ 36 If therefore your whole body is full of light, having no part dark, it will be wholly full of light (24), as when the lamp with its bright shining gives you light.”

+ 39 The Lord [or: Jesus] said to him,Now you Pharisees (89) cleanse the outside of the cup and of the platter, but your inward part (-89) is full of extortion and wickedness.
+ 40 You foolish ones, (89) didn’t he who made the outside make the inside also?(-89)
+ 42 (102) But woe to you Pharisees! (-102) For you tithe mint and rue and every herb, but you bypass justice and God’s love. You ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone.
+ 43 (102) Woe to you Pharisees! (-102) For you love the best seats in the synagogues, and the greetings in the marketplaces.
+ 52 Woe to you (39) lawyers! For you took away the key of knowledge. You didn’t enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in, you hindered.”(-39)
Luke 12.1-9, the leaven of the Pharisees, fear not, before the angels.
+ 2 (6) But there is nothing covered up that will not be revealed, nor anything hidden that will not be known. (-6)
+ 3 (33) Therefore whatever you have said in the darkness will be heard in the light. What you have spoken in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed on the housetops. (-33)
Luke 12.10-21, the sin against the spirit, delivered up, who made me judge, the parable of the rich fool.
+ 10 (44) Everyone who speaks [Marcion: should speak] a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but those who blaspheme [Marcion: should speak] against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. (-44)
+ 13 One of the multitude said to him, (72) “Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.
+ 14 But he said to him, “Man, who made me a judge ~or an arbitrator~ over you?” (-72)
+ 16 He spoke a parable to them, saying, (63) “The ground of a certain rich man produced abundantly.
+ 17 He reasoned within himself, saying, ‘What will I do, because I don’t have room to store my crops?’
+ 18 He said, ‘This is what I will do. I will pull down my barns, build bigger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods.

+ 19 I will tell my soul, “Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years. Take your ease, eat, drink, and be merry.”
+ 20 “But God said to him, ‘You foolish one, tonight your soul is required of you. (-63) The things which you have prepared—whose will they be?’
Luke 12.22-40, seek first the kingdom, treasure in heaven, the parable of the wakeful servants, a thief.
+ 22 (36) He said to his disciples, “Therefore I tell you, don’t be anxious for your life, what you will eat, nor yet for your body, what you will wear.
+ 23 Life is more than food, and the body is more than clothing.
+ 24 Consider the ravens: they don’t sow, they don’t reap, they have no warehouse or barn [Marcion: nor do they gather into barns], and God feeds them. How much more valuable are you than birds!
+ 25 Which of you by being anxious can add a cubit to his height?
+ 27 Consider the lilies, how they grow. They don’t toil, neither do they spin [ML note: most of this is from Oxyrhynchus copy] (-36); yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
+ 33 (76) Sell that which you have, and give gifts to the needy. Make for yourselves purses which don’t grow old, a treasure in the heavens that doesn’t fail, where no thief approaches, neither moth destroys. (-76)
+ 39 (21) But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what hour the thief was coming, he would have watched, and not allowed his house to be broken into. (-21)
Luke 12.41-50, the parable of the faithful steward, fire on the earth.
+ 49 (10) “I came to throw fire on the earth. I wish it were already kindled. (-10)
Luke 12.51-59, not peace but a sword, discerning the times, settle on the way.
+ 51 (16) Do you think that I have come to give peace in [Marcion: to cast peace upon] the earth? I tell you, no, but rather division.
+ 52 For from now on, there will be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
+ 53 They will be divided, father against son, and son against father (-16); and mother against daughter, and daughter against her mother; and mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law, and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
+ 56 You hypocrites! (91) You know how to interpret the appearance of the earth and the sky, but how is it that you don’t know ~how~ to interpret this time? (-91)
Luke 13.10-22, the healing of a woman bent double, the parables of the mustard seed and the leaven, by cities and villages.
+ 19 (20) It [Marcion: God's Kingdom] is like a grain of mustard seed which a man took and put [Marcion: sowed] in his own garden. It grew and became a large tree, and the birds of the sky live in its branches.” (-20)
+ 20 (96) Again he said, “To what shall I compare God’s Kingdom?
+ 21 It is like yeast, which a woman took and hid in three measures of flour, until it was all leavened.” (-96)
Luke 13.23-35, broad and narrow, a prophet cannot perish, lament over Jerusalem.
+ 30 Behold, (4) there are some who are last who will be first, and there are some who are first who will be last.” (4)
Luke 14.1-14, the healing of a man with dropsy, the best seats, the resurrection of the righteous.
Luke 14.15-35, the parable of the great supper, take up your cross, counting the costs, salting the salt.
+ 16 (64) But he said to him, “A certain man made a great supper, and he invited many people.
+ 17 He sent out his servant at supper time to tell those who were invited, ‘Come, for everything is ready now.’
+ 18 They all as one began to make excuses. “The first said to him, ‘I have bought a field, and I must go and see it. Please have me excused.’
+ 20 “Another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I can’t come.’
+ 21 “That servant came, and told his lord these things. Then the master of the house, being angry [Marcion: disturbed], said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in the poor, maimed, blind, and lame.’
+ 23 “The lord said to the servant, ‘Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
+ 24 For I tell you that none of those men who were invited will taste of my supper.’ ” (-64)
+ 26 (101) “If anyone comes to me, and doesn’t disregard his own father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he can’t be my disciple. (-101)
+ 27 (55) Whoever doesn’t bear his own cross, and come after me, can’t be my disciple. (-55)

Luke 15.1-10, the parables of the lost sheep and the lost coin.
+ 4 (107) “Which of you men, if you had one hundred sheep, and lost one of them, wouldn’t leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one that was lost, until he found it? (-107)
Luke 16.1-17, the parable of the shrewd steward, the law.
+ 13 (47) No one servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to one, and despise the other. (-47) You aren’t able to serve God and Mammon.
+ 17 (11) But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one tiny stroke of a pen in the law to fall [Marcion: than for one tiny stroke of a pen in my words to pass away].(11)
Luke 16.18-31, against divorce, the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.
Luke 17.1-19, on scandals, rebuking and forgiving, forgiving seven times, unprofitable servants, the healing of ten lepers.
+ 6 The Lord said, “If you had faith like a grain of mustard seed, (48 / 106) you would tell this sycamore tree, ‘Be uprooted, and be planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you. (-48 / -106)
Luke 17.20-37, when and where, like lightning, as in the days of Noah and Lot, housetop and field, finding and losing, one taken, another left.
+ 20 (113 / 3) Being asked by the Pharisees when God’s Kingdom would come, he answered them,God’s Kingdom doesn’t come with observation;
+ 21 neither will [Marcion: do] they say, ‘Look, here!’ or, Look, there!’ for behold, God’s Kingdom is within you.” (-113 / -3)
+ 22 (38) He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.(-38)
+ 34 (61) I tell you, in that night there will be two people in one bed. One will be taken and the other will be left. (-61)
Luke 18.1-17, the parable of the widow and the judge, the parable of the tax collector and the Pharisee, suffer the children.
+ 16 Jesus summoned them, saying, “Allow the little children to come to me, and don’t hinder them, (22) for God’s [Marcion: the] Kingdom of the heavens belongs to such as these. (-22)
Luke 18.18-34, the rich ruler, forsaking all, the third passion prediction.
Luke 18.35-43, the healing of a blind man.
Luke 19.1-10, Jesus and Zacchaeus.
Luke 19.11-27, the parable of the pounds.
Luke 19.28-48, the triumphal entry, the stones will cry out, the hour of visitation, the temple incident.
+ 40 (19) He answered them, “I tell you that if these were silent, the stones would cry out.” (-19)
Luke 20.1-18, by what authority, the parable of the tenants.
+ 9 (65) He began to tell the people this parable. “A man planted a vineyard, and rented it out to some farmers, and went into another country for a long time.
+ 10 At the proper season, he sent a servant to the farmers to collect his share of the fruit of the vineyard. But the farmers beat him, and sent him away empty.
+ 11 He sent yet another servant, and they also beat him, and treated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.
+ 12 He sent yet a third, and they also wounded him, and threw him out.
+ 13 The lord of the vineyard said, ‘What shall I do? I will send my beloved son. It may be that seeing him, they will respect him.’
+ 14 “But when the farmers saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.’
+ 15 They threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. (-65) What therefore will the lord of the vineyard do to them?
+ 17 But he looked at them and said, “Then what is this that is written, (66) ‘The stone which the builders rejected was made the chief cornerstone?’ (-66)

Luke 20.19-26, render unto God.
+ 22 (100) Is it lawful for us to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?
+ 24 Show me a denarius. Whose image and inscription [or: likeness] are on it?” They answered, “Caesar’s.”
+ 25 He said to them, “Then give to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”(-100)
Luke 20.27-47, marriage in the resurrection, the son of David, beware the scribes.
Luke 21.1-11, the widow and the mites, not one stone, the signs from heaven.
+ 6 (71) “As for these things which you see, the days will come, in which there will not be left here one stone on another that will not be thrown down.” [ML note: dubious; only justified if Mark precedes Luke here] (-71)
Luke 21.12-19, delivered up.
Luke 21.20-28, the armies encircling Jerusalem, days of vengeance, coming on the clouds.
+ 23 (79) Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who nurse infants in those days! (-79) For there will be great distress in the land, and wrath to this people.
Luke 21.29-38, the second parable of the fig tree, be alert, teaching in the temple.
+ 33 (111) Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away [Marcion: remain forever]. (-111)
Luke 22.1-13, the plot to kill Jesus, preparations for the Passover.
Luke 22.14-20, bread and cup.
Luke 22.21-38, one of you will betray me, the kings of the gentiles, denials predicted, two swords.
Luke 22.39-65, Gethsemane, betrayed with a kiss, Peter at the fire, the smiting of Jesus.
Luke 22.66-71, Jesus before the Sanhedrin.
Luke 23.1-25, to Pilate, Jesus before Pilate and Herod.
Luke 23.26-43, Simon of Cyrene, daughters of Jerusalem, the crucifixion of Jesus.
+ 29 For behold, the days are coming in which they will say, (79) ‘Blessed are the barren, the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never nursed.’(-79)
Luke 23.44-56, the death of Jesus, watching from afar, the crucifixion and burial of Jesus.
Luke 24.1-12, the visit to the tomb, the announcement to the eleven, Peter at the tomb.
Luke 24.13-35, the appearance on the road.
Luke 24.36-53, the appearance to the eleven in Jerusalem, the ascension.
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