Irish1975 wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 10:52 am
gryan wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 9:02 am
Irish1975 wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 7:02 am
...there is the suggestion of Steven Davies (
Spirit Poessession and the Origins of Christianity) that the 500 brothers of 1 Cor 15 would have been some kind of group of worshippers who “became of one mind” in the mystical-psychological sense, by having a shared ecstatic experience “of the Lord.”
Thanks for this. I'm sympathetic to Steven Davies' interpretation. I've appreciated his work since the publication of Jesus the Healer in the late '90s. At that time, he was active on the internet discussion forum Crosstalk. In those days, I spent a lot of time comparing GThomas and GMark with Davies as a discussion leader (Incidentally, we also discussed Secret Mark, and Davies convinced me it was a forgery). I always thought of him as being in the historical Jesus camp, so I'm perplexed to see that in his later years he is so appreciative of the mythicist views of Doherty.
Davies is underrated, no doubt.
He is also the only scholar of note who takes the Odes of Solomon at all seriously as a witness to early Christianity. (Since the Odes have no Jesus, of course the mainstream refuses to touch it.)
Isn't that what this is all really about??
From Ode 11
....And speaking waters touched my lips from the fountain of the Lord generously.
And so I drank and became intoxicated, from the living water that does not die.
And my intoxication did not cause ignorance, but I abandoned vanity,
And turned toward the Most High, my God, and was enriched by His favors.
And I rejected the folly cast upon the earth, and stripped it off and cast it from me.
And the Lord renewed me with His garment, and possessed me by His light.
And from above He gave me immortal rest, and I became like the land that blossoms and rejoices in its fruits.
And the Lord is like the sun upon the face of the land.
My eyes were enlightened, and my face received the dew;
And my breath was refreshed by the pleasant fragrance of the Lord.
And He took me to His Paradise, wherein is the wealth of the Lord's pleasure.
I beheld blooming and fruit-bearing trees,
And self-grown was their crown.
Their branches were sprouting and their fruits were shining.
From an immortal land were their roots.
And a river of gladness was irrigating them,
And round about them in the land of eternal life.
Then I worshipped the Lord because of His magnificence.
And I said, Blessed, O Lord, are they who are planted in Your land, and who have a place in Your Paradise;
And who grow in the growth of Your trees, and have passed from darkness into light.
Behold, all Your laborers are fair, they who work good works, and turn from wickedness to your pleasantness.
For the pungent odor of the trees is changed in Your land,
And everything becomes a remnant of Yourself. Blessed are the workers of Your waters, and eternal memorials of Your faithful servants.
Indeed, there is much room in Your Paradise. And there is nothing in it which is barren, but everything is filled with fruit.
Glory be to You, O God, the delight of Paradise for ever.
Hallelujah.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/odes.html
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I read Odes in one sitting this morning, for the first time.
Seems to me that the notions of intoxication without need for literal wine and of being transported to Paradise probably do express something of the shared ecstasy of those early assemblies.